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Thread: Is your draw index or sights driven

  1. #1

    Is your draw index or sights driven

    Cornstalker started a thread on index, and in the process of answering him, I was reminded how, try as I may, I still have some press out in my draw stroke. That got me thinking about the difference between using index to guide your presentation, with sights to confirm your index, versus trying to get the sights in your line of sight and visually guiding your presentation. TPC is a big proponent of using index with sights to confirm, and biomechanically it makes the most sense to me.

    This is me tipping the gun up, trying to get the sights in play early.

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    That has worked pretty well for me, but I felt like I was leaving money on the table with this circuitous presentation path. Another negative associated with it, is you canít set your wrist angle early, since you are doing what my wife refers to as the zebco move.

    This morning I dry fired hard trying to straighten out my draw path. Picture one is the press out way, and picture two is the direct presentation.

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    Early afternoon, we hit the range to test the work. It was darn cold and windy, which didnít help things. After initial results seemed promising, I tested it on an eight steel at 25 yards. It felt a lot easier using index than sights as primary, an the timer said I was drawing to the eight inch at 25 yards in .80-.93.



    Might be worth examining your draw in slow motion and seeing if you can be more efficient.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  2. #2
    My draw is completely index based. I look where I want to draw to and expect the dot to appear there. A lot of that has to do with my cross eye dominance, since I see the dot with my non dominant eye I have to bring the dot to my eye. I am unable to use my eye to find the dot.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich406 View Post
    My draw is completely index based. I look where I want to draw to and expect the dot to appear there. A lot of that has to do with my cross eye dominance, since I see the dot with my non dominant eye I have to bring the dot to my eye. I am unable to use my eye to find the dot.
    Since about fifteen percent of people are cross eye dominant, this may lead to an interesting discussion on use of the dot by cross shooters.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Since about fifteen percent of people are cross eye dominant, this may lead to an interesting discussion on use of the dot by cross shooters.
    Itís what Iíve found works best for me overall, but Iím sure that itís one of the reasons I donít have a consistant sub second draw. If I am off by even a slight amount I have to fish for the dot. I think itís probably much easier to make corrections when you can make those corrections using your eyes to guide your arms.

  5. #5
    A camel named Charlie... TGS's Avatar
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    When I was taking classes from Todd, I went hard on using the sights to guide the draw, as that pretty much sounds like what he proscribed as part of his press-out.

    I gave it a good go, but I've settled on using a more traditional index and using the sights to confirm. The former is way too technical for me to keep up proficiency with the amount that I shoot; I try to get out once per week for a 200 round session, that results in actually getting out once to twice a month.

    FWIW, the fastest shots from concealment I've ever made have been using index based draw, albeit on a relatively large target....and using the index based draw, I have no problem passing LAV's "Test" (10rounds, 10 seconds, 10 yards on a B8). The smaller the target, the more I've found sight-driven presentation to matter...but it's a point of diminishing returns, with the specific applicability being to a limited subset of low-probability shots that ends up making the diminishing returns even more diminished.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  6. #6
    Site Supporter Clobbersaurus's Avatar
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    I abandoned the press out quite a while ago in favour of index. Itís just plain faster. I do search for the front sight using index and there is a bit more ďclean upĒ of the sights needed with index, but the timer doesnít lie.

    Also, I have spent a lot of time in the last few months playing with strong hand positioning and very specifically, thumb positioning, when my hand is ďat restĒ. It helps A LOT to pay attention to this and find out what works best for you, within the rules of your chosen sport, to give you the most consistent index. I wish I had paid more attention to this years earlier.

    Edit to add: and Rich touched on this above, I find a laser focus on your target, not just a general gaze (so to speak) makes a huge difference. Iíll usually pick a blemish or paster on the target (in the middle of the zone I am trying to hit) and try to focus as hard as I can on that point. It does help.
    Last edited by Clobbersaurus; 12-28-2018 at 09:09 PM.
    "Next time somebody says USPSA or IPSC is all hosing, junk punch them." - Les Pepperoni
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  7. #7
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    I find that if I grip the gun so that the central axis of the barrel is aligned with the central axis of my forearm when viewed from the top, I am most likely to see the sights aligned on the target, and less likely to have to fish for the sights. I am trying to work on picking up the front sight
    sooner in the process, but am usually picking up the front sight close to full extension.



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  8. #8
    Site Supporter David S.'s Avatar
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    Iím about 3 weeks into the Steve Anderson dry fire program. He teaches index driven rather than sight driven draw. It seems to be working well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clobbersaurus View Post
    Edit to add: and Rich touched on this above, I find a laser focus on your target, not just a general gaze (so to speak) makes a huge difference. Iíll usually pick a blemish or paster on the target (in the middle of the zone I am trying to hit) and try to focus as hard as I can on that point. It does help.
    Itís early but Iím finding the exact same thing. The more precise my focus is before I start, the more accurate my draw is.

  9. #9
    Site Supporter Clobbersaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S. View Post
    Iím about 3 weeks into the Steve Anderson dry fire program. He teaches index driven rather than sight driven draw. It seems to be working well.



    Itís early but Iím finding the exact same thing. The more precise my focus is before I start, the more accurate my draw is.
    I give Steve Anderson full props for much of my gains over the last two years. Keep it up! It will pay out huge for you next season.
    "Next time somebody says USPSA or IPSC is all hosing, junk punch them." - Les Pepperoni
    --

  10. #10
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    Index, focused on the target but picking up sights peripherally. I have used the analogy of driving a straight line from the holster to full extension. As Iíve gotten older, a hi-vis front has gottton much easier to pick up peripherally at speed. IMO, this is where fiber, HDs, ProGlos really ďshineĒ.
    Last edited by LSP552; 12-30-2018 at 10:49 AM.

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