M855A1 article [GRAPHIC - NSFW]

[DocGKR]

It could be done, but why?

I'd rather just have the original bonded SOST.

If a penetrator is necessary, it makes much more sense to just use a true AP load like M995 that can actually get through armor.

[Chuck Haggard]

I actually think there is a solid place for an old school, steel core, cheap to make, AP (AP-ish?) rounds like the old 30-06 black tip, in both 5.56 and 7.62. Maybe I'm swayed by stories from my dad of just how useful that -06 was for digging bad guys out from cover like mud walls, trees, etc.
I think in the 7.62 performance would be very similar to the old -06, which wouldn't get through the best plates you can buy nowadays, but would certainly be extremely useful for most other jobs you might want your ammo to do on a battlefield.

Anyway, just thinking out loud as it were. IMHO we screwed up when we reduced everything to basically ball ammo for the rifle/carbine guys and ball/tracer for the belt fed guns.

[DocGKR]

Old school M2 AP type rounds were used to good effect in WWII, but rather than re-issuing such an outmoded design, why not just place M995 and M993 on stripper clips and make them readily available for carbine/rifle users?

[Chuck Haggard]

Old school M2 AP type rounds were used to good effect in WWII, but rather than re-issuing such an outmoded design, why not just place M995 and M993 on stripper clips and make them readily available for carbine/rifle users?

Honest question, what would the cost be of a steel core AP round vs the very best current tungsten core rounds?

I'm thinking that a cheap, easy to build, steel core round would be very useful for guys on the ground even in cases where the bad guys do not commonly have body armor. Lately we are trying to shoot through mud walls, trees and trucks more than we are shooting at people with quality body armor.

I'd think something like the mk318 could substitute a steel core for lead, or even if it was a copy of the M2AP round, obviously that was cheap and easy to build, otherwise we wouldn't have had it so widely available to the average rifleman.

[DocGKR]

The cost of small arms ammo is really quite negligible when compared to other weapons systems--for example the cost of an F35 helmet is enough to purchase around 500,000 rounds of M995. The cost of one F35 aircraft would be enough to pay for M995 being exclusively used as the sole training and combat round for every U.S. service member for the next several decades...

[JDM]

The cost of small arms ammo is really quite negligible when compared to other weapons systems--for example the cost of an F35 helmet is enough to purchase around 500,000 rounds of M995. The cost of one F35 aircraft would be enough to pay for M995 being exclusively used as the sole training and combat round for every U.S. service member for the next several decades...

Wow...

[TR675]

The cost of small arms ammo is really quite negligible when compared to other weapons systems--for example the cost of an F35 helmet is enough to purchase around 500,000 rounds of M995. The cost of one F35 aircraft would be enough to pay for M995 being exclusively used as the sole training and combat round for every U.S. service member for the next several decades...

And I'm willing to bet that M995 actually works, too.

[DocGKR]

M995 works well; M993 works fantastically! I'd love to see a 6.5-7mm AP bullet using this technology--for example a .260 Rem version of M993/M995...


Think of how much M995 & M993 we could have purchased for the hundreds of millions of dollars wasted on XM8/XM25/XM29.

[Failure2Stop]

Honest question, what would the cost be of a steel core AP round vs the very best current tungsten core rounds?

I'm thinking that a cheap, easy to build, steel core round would be very useful for guys on the ground even in cases where the bad guys do not commonly have body armor. Lately we are trying to shoot through mud walls, trees and trucks more than we are shooting at people with quality body armor.

I'd think something like the mk318 could substitute a steel core for lead, or even if it was a copy of the M2AP round, obviously that was cheap and easy to build, otherwise we wouldn't have had it so widely available to the average rifleman.

Frankly, when it comes to mud-hut walls frequently encountered in the AFG , nothing shoulder-fired without a shaped-charge payload is going to get through. I'm not saying that there isn't value in a good AP round, simply trying to keep the discussion realistic.

[Lomshek]

The cost of small arms ammo is really quite negligible when compared to other weapons systems--for example the cost of an F35 helmet is enough to purchase around 500,000 rounds of M995. The cost of one F35 aircraft would be enough to pay for M995 being exclusively used as the sole training and combat round for every U.S. service member for the next several decades...

Pretty much the point I make every time someone uses the old "not enough money in the ammo budget" excuse to explain why training to a higher standard of weapons proficiency in the military is too expensive. For the price of an F35 support troops could be given weapons training equivalent to current infantry standards (maybe worth it, maybe not) and combat troops could be trained to a very high level.