Natural index?

[gomerpyle]

I let it go.

It was slightly bigger than a G19 and accordingly harder to conceal. Also, I never mastered the ambiguous grip issue, and the G19 doesn't have that problem so I stuck with that.

DB has said similar things about knives.


Okie John

Many thanks OJ for getting back to me.

[feudist]

I used to poo poo the Glock grip angle issue...until I added an RMR to mine.

Now, it seems clear that I was visually aligning my sights and/or shooting out of the notch. All well and good until your grip and index ingrained for 24 years now presents the dot somewhere above the optic.
I've been dry firing and going to the range, but I'm not sure I can train that ingrained of a habit out. I've carried nothing but Glocks for 2 and a half decades.
But when I casually punch out my 22/45 with a FF3 on it-boom,perfect alignment.
I think I just sucked for a very long time....

[Alpha Sierra]

I used to poo poo the Glock grip angle issue...until I added an RMR to mine.

Now, it seems clear that I was visually aligning my sights and/or shooting out of the notch. All well and good until your grip and index ingrained for 24 years now presents the dot somewhere above the optic.
I've been dry firing and going to the range, but I'm not sure I can train that ingrained of a habit out. I've carried nothing but Glocks for 2 and a half decades.
But when I casually punch out my 22/45 with a FF3 on it-boom,perfect alignment.
I think I just sucked for a very long time....

This is why I don't believe any of the "train through it" bullcrap.

I've been a rifle shooter for far too long to dismiss the importance of natural point of aim. Tell a pistol shooter to ignore it and "train through it" actually means: ignore NPA and force your way through it. That never works no matter how hard you try or what you shoot.

[runcible]

The specifics of NPA are contingent upon how the varied points of contact between the shooter’s body and the ground, and the shooter’s body and the weapon; and at times the weapon and the ground.

With 2/3 to 2/5 of the contact points between the shooter and the weapon, rifle vs pistol; NPA is applicable for horizontal displacement alone when it comes to 2-handed pistol shooting and somewhat less so for 1-handed shooting depending on the mechanics involved. For riflework, it applies to both horizontal and vertical displacement.

(It’s a horrible metaphor, but it’s the difference between triangulating with 2 observers vs 3-5.)

That said, NPA has nothing to do with the angles of the wrist or elbows, nor the articulation of the shoulders; and that’s what will most-heavily determine the orientation of the muzzle at presentation.

Setting and verifying an NPA that intersects with the target/POA will reduce the number or variables in play; but ultimately it is through deliberate presentations with specific mindfulness to the wrist orientation in particular that most shooters will be able to efficiently remedy the concern. Pressing out from a high/compressed ready does provide for more and more useful feedback than working from a low ready at full extension.

[runcible]

"The specifics of NPA are contingent upon the varied points of contact between the shooter’s body and the ground, and the points of contact between the shooter’s body and the weapon, and at times the weapon and the ground. The body seeking a relatively neutral orientation between the influence of the body\ground contacts and the body\weapon contacts yields the NPA of that particular moment."

...egregious errors in the first sentence in the previous post, which I didn't catch while typing on mobile. oof.