Natural index?

[cornstalker]

There are two approaches to this. You can adapt the pistol to you, by choosing one that points naturally for you. The other approach is to adapt your technique to the pistol.

Years ago, I found a Glock pointed high for me. Now, it points naturally. Since I didn’t modify the pistol, it is clear that I am holding the pistol differently. FWIW, a Glock and VP9 point the same for me.

If you choose to adapt to the pistol, through dry fire you will have to experiment enough to figure out what you need to do. This is not something you are likely to learn through reading.

I most certainly value this input. Thank you!

[GJM]

Something that I was thinking about yesterday, is how important it is with a Glock to set your wrist angle and tension early in the presentation. This helps level the pistol, helps you find the dot, and sets you up for fast follow-up shots. It is something that I still struggle with, as I have left over press out tendencies that I am still trying to get out of my draw.

This is what is left from my press out, as you can see in this screenshot from yesterday.



And, a closer view of the same thing, where my muzzle goes up and over, requiring me to level and set my wrist tension and angle later.



Below, is me doing it properly, with my wrist angle and tension set early, where the gun goes out and up.

[cornstalker]

Something that I was thinking about yesterday, is how important it is with a Glock to set your wrist angle and tension early in the presentation. This helps level the pistol, helps you find the dot, and sets you up for fast follow-up shots. It is something that I still struggle with, as I have left over press out tendencies that I am still trying to get out of my draw.

This is what is left from my press out, as you can see in this screenshot from yesterday.



And, a closer view of the same thing, where my muzzle goes up and over, requiring me to level and set my wrist tension and angle later.



Below, is me doing it properly, with my wrist angle and tension set early, where the gun goes out and up.

I had a little time to work with this today. I am sure I am not doing everything 100% right at this point, but simply being aware that "setting wrist angle and tension" is a thing has already made a difference. Of all of the things I have tried to pay attention to in my draw, that has never been one. Thanks for that little nugget!

Quoted from my TJ.

Dry practice. G19x RMR CT International

Time to slay the index dragon...

Based on input from George, I started paying attention to my wrist angle and tension. I have never paid that any mind at all. Not sure if this is the right way to do it, but as demonstrated in the above Avery video I started aimed in and noted wrist tension and angle as I reholstered. I started slow and increased the speed through 50 untimed draws, noting wrist angle and tension in both directions. It appears to have made an immediate difference in having the gun pointed in the right direction when it reaches extension.

I did 25 more draws to a sight picture with a .7 par. If any of the last fifteen were overtime it wasn't by much.

Only clean reps counted. Didn't have very many garbage reps.

I then had the wife video a few draws so I can look at it in detail and try to break it down. Not the best video, but I am already seeing a few things. Number one is a few inconsistencies. Like head bobbing one time and not the next, and a bit of torso rock fore and aft while my arms are in motion. More stuff I can work on.

[P30]

I switch between Glock 19 and HK P30. Most of the time I train with the P30. When I switch to Glock, it used to point high. Then I've observed: If I hold the Glock grip loosely, then I feel if the slide is horizontal (I feel if it's balanced or not). This helps me to adapt faster to the Glock. At the beginning of the draw, I hold the grip loosely. I feel, if the slide is balanced, then I grip stronger.

I have done more dry practice with the goal to aim quicker (with the Glock 19 and P30).

This simple technique has worked for me:

• Place the index finger of the strong hand so on the pistol frame that the finger is parallel to the bore axis.
• Consciously point with the tip of your index finger to the target while you lift/extend your arms to the target.

It's enough to intend at the beginning of the lift/extension to point with the index finger to the target. You can put the finger on the trigger, if you want to shoot.

This little technique helps in addition:

• Grip the pistol as high as possible.
• Push against the uppermost part of the grip (with the middle vertice of the "V" formed by your thumb and index finger).

If I apply these techniques, the Glock's front sight is not much to high above the rear sight, it's nearly perfect. Even if I switch quickly between Glock and P30, it works fine, also with the P30. Of course I must place the tip of the index finger lower on the P30 frame than on the Glock frame in order to get the finger parallel to the bore. Meanwhile I think placing the index finger parallel to the bore helps more than feeling the balance.

[JV_]

If I switch from one gun to another, and point it with my eyes closed, it'll be off from the previous gun. But, I don't shoot with my eyes closed, so I don't care much. After I put some rounds (50-100) through the new gun, everything feels fine. I find the way a gun recoils, the trigger nuances, and how the sights move in recoil, to be more noteworthy during a gun transition than how it 'points'.

Also, I really try to lock out left/weak hand wrist. My thumb points at the target. Perhaps this built in index/pointing facilitates the transition?

[P30]

My thumb points at the target. Perhaps this built in index/pointing facilitates the transition?

Thumb points at the target, interesting. If your thumb is parallel to the barrel, then it would be plausible for me that it helps.

[P30]

set your wrist angle and tension early in the presentation.

Push against the uppermost part of the grip (with the middle vertice of the "V" formed by your thumb and index finger).

Maybe we mean the same. But now I like GJM's wording better.

[gomerpyle]

I had the same issue with the VP9, which was a drag since it’s so freaking good in so many other ways.


Okie John

Do you still shoot the VP9, and if so, how do you deal with the VP9's ambiguous grip? Im having problems with the grip, despite the wealth of panel and backstrap choices... love the platform, and hope i can solve this problem....

[Alpha Sierra]

An index and a carry rotation are incompatible.

That depends on which pistols are in the rotation. For me, CZs and S&W revolvers; no problem at all. Either one comes right up to where it should.

Glocks are a no go, which is why I don't have any

[okie john]

Do you still shoot the VP9, and if so, how do you deal with the VP9's ambiguous grip? Im having problems with the grip, despite the wealth of panel and backstrap choices... love the platform, and hope i can solve this problem....

I let it go.

It was slightly bigger than a G19 and accordingly harder to conceal. Also, I never mastered the ambiguous grip issue, and the G19 doesn't have that problem so I stuck with that.

DB has said similar things about knives.


Okie John