P series LEM “difficulty”, is it all in the mind? A very in-depth look at LEM.

[nwhpfan]

The revolver reset is pretty much all the way out. So each trigger pull is effectively the whole length. Somehow, they still manage to shoot fast.


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Allright, sounds like you got it all figured out then....

Thanks for the info about the LEM though...

[sharps54]

I'm pretty sure Rob Leatham thinks it's very important to reset the trigger very fast.

As do I.

Here’s a good thread on reset including a video with an interview with Rob.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ull-reset-quot

[GJM]

While the OP may feel like he has the cure to the LEM, as far as I am concerned, this is settled science. The LEM is a great trigger, with many administrative advantages, that yields less shooter performance for a given amount of shooter ability than many other trigger systems. I frequently carry a LEM, in the form of a match hybrid LEM on a full size USP FS, and feel like it is the best trigger system for that model pistol. Of course, what I really like most is the rest of the USP FS 45.

[nwhpfan]

Man, I don't know how this got off the rails....

But one thing is certain is that this thread has reinforced my belief that sometimes there is alot of information out there for people to process and understand.

I've seen a lot of people go down the road of chasing performance through gear, or springs, or even different guns. I've seen a lot of people not fully understand a concept, or technique, or philosophy and find themselves never achieving their goal, or performing they way the want, and not knowing why. The number one reasons I list my USPSA number and videos of me shooting is so people can evaluate what I say with observation of how I shoot.

Re-set....ugh.

It is required to shoot the gun again. And you should do it fast. If I ever meet Rob Leatham or Ernest Langdon I'll ask them if they disagree. Re-set, some guns it's shorter, and some are longer. Shorter ones are usually more desirable. I can only imagine why.

[Coyote41]

While the OP may feel like he has the cure to the LEM, as far as I am concerned, this is settled science. The LEM is a great trigger, with many administrative advantages, that yields less shooter performance for a given amount of shooter ability than many other trigger systems. I frequently carry a LEM, in the form of a match hybrid LEM on a full size USP FS, and feel like it is the best trigger system for that model pistol. Of course, what I really like most is the rest of the USP FS 45.

I made this thread for discussion (obviously). My method helped me overcome a lot of the issues others experience, but is by no means an end all solution for everyone. If anyone has a different technique, chime in please. Just don’t say shoot it like a revolver.

I also don’t think LEM is the end-all-be-all of triggers. I actually think triggers that once triggers meet an “okay” standard, they are less of a big deal than people make them out to be. My prefered trigger is a 1911 trigger (due to the straight back pull). The problem with that is it’s attached to a 1911.

[TheNewbie]

I shot a better group with my Ruger LCP than my Glock 45 during quals. The trigger on the the LCP forced me to slow down and it is consistent throughout the pull. It reminds me of the DAK. I am one of the few people I know of who likes the DAK better than most other systems.


Sadly it’s no longer in mainstream production and they never put it in a polymer gun.


I tried a P2000 V2 in 9mm for about 600 rounds. It was just not for me.

[TCB]

I can’t wait until they put the 50k +/- of ours in the shredder...

[joshs]

While the OP may feel like he has the cure to the LEM, as far as I am concerned, this is settled science.

Is it? ToddG generated a bunch of data in the two HK tests. He didn't instantly shoot a G17 or 9mm 1911 better. I don't feel like I shot a P30 substantially worse than other pistols (other than the aforementioned fast splits).

This thread did make me look for some videos of me shooting a P30, and I found this cool one that Todd took over my shoulder so both the sights and target are visible. (It also shows some pretty slow splits :P).

[Duke]

If I ever meet Rob Leatham or Ernest Langdon I'll ask them if they disagree. Re-set, some guns it's shorter, and some are longer. Shorter ones are usually more desirable. I can only imagine why.

Why not just ask the multitudes of folks on here that have trained with one or both of those guys few times?


I’ll go first - reset trains you to shoot again based off what you feel in your finger rather than what you see in your sights.

Once I started focusing on how I pulled the trigger rather than how I released it - I sort of started shooting faster and better.

[Balisong]

A better question may be what are you trying to do with the LEM?

Are you Agency mandated to use LEM ?

The LEMs strength is as a people mangement trigger. You can’t assess the effect of your shots when shooting splits in the teens.

Take a look at this video and think about why you want to run LEM vs another system.

That was certainly some interesting food for thought. I know it's been discussed on this board before, but it was interesting hearing in context of an actual specific example when he shot to where the guy's head was, but wasn't any longer.