P series LEM “difficulty”, is it all in the mind? A very in-depth look at LEM.

[CCT125US]

I guess I have been doing it wrong the entire time. Or maybe my terminology is wrong.

Not wrong, perhaps sub optimal. Think of the LEM as rowing a boat, you don't jam the oar (take up) into the water (trigger wall), and then jerk it to the rear (past the break). You want an even stroke that finishes flat.

[Guinnessman]

Not wrong, perhaps sub optimal. Think of the LEM as rowing a boat, you don't jam the oar (take up) into the water (trigger wall), and then jerk it to the rear (past the break). You want an even stroke that finishes flat.

Row, row, your LEM gently down the stream...........🤣

I like your explanation of the LEM technique.

[echo5charlie]

Not wrong, perhaps sub optimal. Think of the LEM as rowing a boat, you don't jam the oar (take up) into the water (trigger wall), and then jerk it to the rear (past the break). You want an even stroke that finishes flat.

I spent some time last night dry firing using the "one continuous motion" method. My experience and your rowing analogy mesh well and as such I now also understand the reasoning behind the TLG explanation.

[Doc_Glock]

Would someone that carries an LEM benefit from training with another trigger system?

In other words, does LEM hold back someone's progress from learning and improving as a shooter?

The idea of carrying lem/tda and training with a vp9 owb strong side is something I've never thought of before. Really liked the vp9 /sk but obviously no gadget.

I do not think there is a benefit to training another system if you are carrying LEM. Stick with the LEM. I do think the LEM can make you a better shooter with other easier to shoot triggers if you master it.

The VP9 is one of the stupid easiest guns in the world to shoot well. Out of the box, it is one gun I think really makes most users perform at near their highest level, consistently. It is truly a remarkable piece of work. I would never train with one in the hopes it would make my LEM shooting better. It would just discourage me.

[JonInWA]

I've personally experienced derivative benefits with other platforms/actions in conjunction with LEM use. LEM/DAO actions force, if nothing else, a more focused attention to triggerpull and the overall triggerpull/trigger control process. That pays off with other actions, at least in my personal experience.

Best, Jon

[Brian T]

So if anyone wants a HK P2000v2 (H-LEM) with 9 mags, gimme a holler. Round count 100. Dry fire 225.

[Coyote41]

The LEM has made me very comfortable with any kind of DAO. I can’t say that DAO translates to better LEM, however, since the DAO reset is usually fully forward. LEM is it’s own thing that I still consider an auto-decocking TDA.

I’m currently playing with a Beretta 92X, and I shoot the DA pull better than I shoot the SA in slow fire. Go figure....


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[JonInWA]

I do not think there is a benefit to training another system if you are carrying LEM. Stick with the LEM. I do think the LEM can make you a better shooter with other easier to shoot triggers if you master it.

The VP9 is one of the stupid easiest guns in the world to shoot well. Out of the box, it is one gun I think really makes most users perform at near their highest level, consistently. It is truly a remarkable piece of work. I would never train with one in the hopes it would make my LEM shooting better. It would just discourage me.

I agree with you regarding the VP triggerpull (which in my case is a VP40). Although I've qualified on it for duty, the VP trigger break is much softer than the crisp break on a Glock. I usually prefer the P30L with it's LEM as a threat management tool-while the triggerpull weight/break weight is about the same (some 5.4 lbs as I recall), the longer pull distance gives you more time to get off it if a situation no longer warrents firing the gun.

While I don't consider LEM to be "unnatural" or unintuitive, especially with my 1.5 mod, it does take time to familiarize and truly master. The VP short, light pull is much less demanding and easier.

Best, Jon

[Coyote41]

I agree with you regarding the VP triggerpull (which in my case is a VP40). Although I've qualified on it for duty, the VP trigger break is much softer than the crisp break on a Glock. I usually prefer the P30L with it's LEM as a threat management tool-while the triggerpull weight/break weight is about the same (some 5.4 lbs as I recall), the longer pull distance gives you more time to get off it if a situation no longer warrents firing the gun.

While I don't consider LEM to be "unnatural" or unintuitive, especially with my 1.5 mod, it does take time to familiarize and truly master. The VP short, light pull is much less demanding and easier.

Best, Jon

Since we’re back on the subject of LEM, have you tried the Grayguns short reset? If you have I’m curious about your experience with it. I’ve had one on all my P series pistols since they came out.


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[JonInWA]

Since we’re back on the subject of LEM, have you tried the Grayguns short reset? If you have I’m curious about your experience with it. I’ve had one on all my P series pistols since they came out.


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I haven't tried it. I have no doubt that it's a quality component, but now that I've got my LEM pretty much where i want it (and thanks to your help in that process), I'm working on software improvemnts (me) as opposed to additional hardware solutions. When my skill set and quantifiable results achieve an apogee, I think that would be an appropriete time for me to then re-enter more hardware into the equation to achieve further incrimental results.

And while the reset isn't quite as nearly instantaneous with forward trigger movement like on a Glock, the HK reset points on my P30L LEM (and VP40) really aren't all that egregious, at least from my perceptions.

Best, Jon