P series LEM “difficulty”, is it all in the mind? A very in-depth look at LEM.

[babypanther]

I can’t wait until they put the 50k +/- of ours in the shredder...

I'd love to buy my old one back

[JonInWA]

First, my utmost appreciation to everyone that I worked with at HK on this-Customer Service Rep Tommy, Armorers Ryan and Daniel, and a female Customer Service Rep who's name unfortunately I can't recall. They were unfailingly polite, professional and genuinely interested and uniformly supportive in my quest-and that covers about a month of repeated calls and detailed discussions. And after this resolution, they stressed if I needed to revisit or go deeper, they were there for me. THAT'S superb customer service and aftermarket support-literally some of the best in the business I've encountered. Oh, and one other thing-the pistol was shipped to HK on Monday, and they had it back to me on Thursday. HK also removed some residual movement that remained with the Small backstrap at the top of the tang where it joined the frame (it was of no real operational consequence, but a bit irritating, and HK was happy to resolve it; apparently there may be some minor play due to the Small backstrap mold, or possibly incurred during the backstrap plastic's curing after molding.

Equally, thanks to Coyote41 here and TooSixy at the HK Pro forum, whose advice (and patience) over the past month or so as I dived deep into improving my V1 LEM was invaluable.

So-Where did I end up? My goal was to have a more "shootable" HK P30L V1 LEM, but without sacrificing the threat-management tenants of the LEM action-particularly the long pull length before firing. More shootable for me I determined (with much help from others, definitely including on this thread here) was to be a heavier, more resistant trigger pull, with the desire for the triggerpull characteristics to be transformed if possible from a dual stage (initial/wall-break) into more of a single-stage pull, with a more continuous/unbroken pull from inception to break. In other words, mitigating against the initial "flying through the air" initial pull (with its inherent lack of feel/ tactile feedback, then being met with "hitting the wall" towards the end of the long pull process. I am satisfied with both the overall LEM triggerpull length and the reset as it comes from HK. My premise is that this set-up will serve well as a threat-management tool, but be more shootable for other venues, such as IDPA. Yeah, I want my cake and be able to eat it too...

My P30L V1 came with standard-weight springs uniformly for the hammer spring, the trigger return/rebound spring, and the firing pin block spring. At this point, after much discussion and input from multiple parties, HK only needed to change one spring to meet my goal (or to take the first good-faith stab at it): the standard weight trigger return/rebound spring was replaced with the newer HK medium-weight trigger rebound/return spring (234773). Coyote41 has additionally provided me with the lighter-weight firing pin block spring (209296), which I may experiment with later; I gave HK a free hand in putting one in mine when it was there, but they felt that there simply wouldn't be a discernible benefit from it, and chose to keep the OEM standard-weight FPBS (209962) in place. I may experiment with it in the future (thanks again, Coyote41).

Dry fire with the new set-up reveals that the medium-weight TRS has indeed favorably (for me, at least) changed the triggerpull characteristics, making it somewhat similar to that on my Beretta 92D DAO, upgraded with Wilson Combat improved triggerbar and springs. The triggerpull feels to be about 6 to 6.5 lbs., (very similar to that on my upgraded 92D) and the weight gives me a much improved triggerpull feel, in that more weight/resistance is provided, giving, at least to me, more control throughout the triggerpull process. The differentiation between the initial pull and the wall is significantly muted. I'm impressed, and plan on running the pistol in next Saturday's IDPA match.

Essentially, I have a bit of a hybrid LEM between V1 and V2, with some of the characteristics of the V4/V4.1 (but without the triggerpull shortening of the 4.1, which is somewhat expensive, and requires more parts, for reportedly incremental results). Call mine with the medium-weight TRS a (and otherwise standard-weight FPBS and HS) a V1.5, perhaps.

I'll continue to keep everyone posted as I go further, but at this point I'm pretty impressed-and appreciative.

Best, Jon

Ok, as promised. Yesterday I competed in a local 7-stage IDPA match with the P30L with the new medium trigger return spring (TRS). This was my first live-fire with it, but I had a week of concentrated daily dryfiring.

While my overall match score placement was fairly low, due to my relatively slow stage completion times (part of which is getting used to the nuances of the new pull, part due to the intrinsic nature of the LEM action, most of it due to natural slowness on my part...sigh), my accuracy was tied with my second best IDPA lowest number of points down since I started shooting shooting IDPA in 2007. It was also by far the best accuracy results with the P30L to date, and equaled/tied my best IDPA match accuracy with my VP40.

Key take-outs and perceptions: (and keep in mind that these are for me, applicability towards you might well vary)

1. The medium TRS did exactly what I hoped: it provided more tactile feel throughout the entire triggerpull, from inception to break, and provided a more natural, less abrupt segue when the wall was hit.

2. The tendency for vertical stringing that Dagga Boy/Darryl discussed with LEM was effectively eliminated, as the new medium TRS seems to make the entire triggerpull a continuous/single-stage pull-through its entirety.

3. Reset is unaffected, regarding both reset distance and feel.

4. Overall triggerpull length is unaffected by the new TRS (unlike the 4.1 LEM, which slightly shortens the triggerpull distance {shortening the initial take-up distance prior to the wall being reached}).

5. Shooting with the "V1.5" LEM was much, much more natural than with the OEM V1 LEM. I was able to concentrate more on target acquisition and prioritization (index and sights) with triggerpull naturally, and seemingly seamlessly occurring as necessary. For me, that's huge-and a huge win in and of itself.

In short, the medium TRS "LEM V1.5" is a win for me. I was naturally able to make successive headshots (and with very tight 2-shot groups), both at medium and short distances. While one match/event does not provide anything approximating a methodological scientific analysis, it certainly provides significant confirmation for me. I feel totally comfortable in deploying it for duty, and will run it in at least one, if not two February matches, and for the upcoming 2-3 months without any further changes/modifications (with a concurrent daily dryfire program) to see if continued use verify my initial extremely favorable impressions and results.

Best, Jon

[Balisong]

Very cool, thanks for these updates and I'm looking forward to reading more of them.

At the moment, I'm thinking my P30L V2 may be a bit of a project gun with trying out different spring combos. Your current setup is one I definitely want to give a go.

[Kirk]

Excellent report!

I'm really enjoying my newish V4.1 P30. It's my first LEM gun, though I've got a ton of rounds down with multiple platforms (I take after GJM lol). I'm not noticing a huge difference at all, though splits have dropped from about .15ish to .18ish with the LEM on Bill drills/4Aces/etc. I expected a good deal more, but I think maybe I'm helped a little because I almost never ride reset, not sure. Really though, hosing bill drills at 7-10y certainly isn't a comprehensive test, and I need a lot more practice with the gun. Also worth noting that the V4.1 "feels" more natural to me than the V1 a friend owns that I've shot previously. This setup is going to be my dedicated carry gun and training gun setup for the year, and I plan to shoot it a good deal in Steel Challenge starting in March. I'll definitely post some updates around that time.

[Balisong]

Excellent report!

I'm really enjoying my newish V4.1 P30. It's my first LEM gun, though I've got a ton of rounds down with multiple platforms (I take after GJM lol). I'm not noticing a huge difference at all, though splits have dropped from about .15ish to .18ish with the LEM on Bill drills/4Aces/etc. I expected a good deal more, but I think maybe I'm helped a little because I almost never ride reset, not sure. Really though, hosing bill drills at 7-10y certainly isn't a comprehensive test, and I need a lot more practice with the gun. Also worth noting that the V4.1 "feels" more natural to me than the V1 a friend owns that I've shot previously. This setup is going to be my dedicated carry gun and training gun setup for the year, and I plan to shoot it a good deal in Steel Challenge starting in March. I'll definitely post some updates around that time.

You're getting .18 splits on Bill Drill type drills with LEM and not riding the reset to do it? Damn that's impressive!

[Kirk]

You're getting .18 splits on Bill Drill type drills with LEM and not riding the reset to do it? Damn that's impressive!

I just want to clarify here. In a previous life, I spent almost all of my rounds hosing at short distances to the detriment of my other skills. That is by far my best skill set. I'm still slower with the LEM virtually everywhere, but for some reason am not being *super* hampered by the reset. Again, its 7y, so mainly just an exercise in how fast I can operate my trigger finger. Definitely wouldn't replicate this speed in a match where I'm trying for As. I'm thinking of starting a training log here, and if so, I'll video my journey with the LEM.

Like almost everyone who initially tries it (I've read virtually all of the old posts on it ), I really do like the gun. I still realize I may hit the same wall with it that a lot of people do, but for now, I'll see where it goes. I haven't shot steel with it yet, so not sure how much that will change things either.

[Doc_Glock]

I just want to clarify here. In a previous life, I spent almost all of my rounds hosing at short distances to the detriment of my other skills. That is by far my best skill set. I'm still slower with the LEM virtually everywhere, but for some reason am not being *super* hampered by the reset. Again, its 7y, so mainly just an exercise in how fast I can operate my trigger finger. Definitely wouldn't replicate this speed in a match where I'm trying for As. I'm thinking of starting a training log here, and if so, I'll video my journey with the LEM.

I would love to see your training journal.

[imp1295]

For later. Thanks.

[M2CattleCo]

So basically, if you make a LEM less like a LEM, and more like a DAO, it's still slow, but doesn't miss as much?

[JonInWA]

So basically, if you make a LEM less like a LEM, and more like a DAO, it's still slow, but doesn't miss as much?

Nice snark, but at least for me the answer is a bit more nuanced. The key aspects of LEM is the longer DAO triggerpull, combined with visible hammer movement, combined with a relatively light triggerpull weight, combined with auto decocking, combined with a hammer to ensure uneventful re-holstering.

Where the nuancing comes in, at least for me is in the overall triggerpull characteristics. While not necessarily a technically accurate description, V1 LEM arguably provides a two-stage triggerpull; a very light pull weight for most of the triggerpull arc and then heaver immediately coincident with reaching the wall and break at the 5.4# weight.

The difficulty for me was in the initial pull portion of the trggerpull; it was too light and tactically imperceptible, especially to muscle memory concentrated on my DAO Beretta 92D and smoother Ruger GP100 and Security Six revolvers. The imperceptibility of the V1 initial pull weight, combined with the long triggerpull arc and the rather abrupt wall at the end of that long pull I personally found to be a difficult transition, resulting in vertical stringing of my shots.

The solution, as I've described earlier, was simply to substitute the newer HK Medium Trigger Return/Rebound Spring, which provided me increased pull weight during the initial triggerpull arc, providing a much better tactile feel of the trigger through the increased resistance provided by the pull weight increase, and concurrently smoothing the triggerpull transition at the wall-in effect, providing more single-stage triggerpull feel. I've termed this combination "V1.5."

So the triggerpull distance, a key LEM factor in unchanged, making it a superb threat management tool. While triggerpull speed is (still) like that of a traditional DAO, it's a bit lighter overall. And foe me, it's certainly more accurate in use.

There is another LEM variant, 4.1, which does what 1.5 does, but concurrently reduces the trigger pull distance; it's somewhat expensive, as it requires more parts, and I personally prefer the LEM longer pull distance.

Best, Jon