We do this one yet? Mattis stepping down...

[wvincent]

Yeah I read the whole thing with my mommy helping me sound out the big words. Then I got to pick out my own cookie.

After eating my cookie I reflected that it's pretty unclear that a retired general officer counts as a "commissioned officer" for the purposes of the particular article and if that prong fails there can be no conviction. I then reflected on the fact that it's been used exactly once for a retired officer, and that ended in a loss for the gov't. I then, based on the above facts and information, concluded that Mattis "probably doesn't have much to worry about."

I'm not sure how you got that " probably doesn't have much to worry about" means "precludes it." But I hope this sets your mind at ease that I did, in fact, read what I posted. I didn't time how long it took me to do the cut and paste or to look up a few sources to see if there was something to worry about. I apologize sincerely if you took it as "hasty" and will try to read and to do my editing of copyrighted material down for posting at a more leisurely pace so as not to further offend.

Oh, I also tried to find the 1918 case of United States v. Salvagno to see what the issue was causing the gov't loss, but couldn't find it free online.

Now you owe me a cookie, too.

Sorry it took so long to reply, my Mom isn't home, so I had to go up stairs and heat my own Hot Pockets. It would be really cool if I had a microwave in the basement.
Can only drop a link and cut and paste a small snippet as my Mom locked up the big jar of paste after "the incident".
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...r-service.html
"From Adm. Bill McRaven to Gen. Michael Hayden and Gen. Martin Dempsey, some of President Donald Trump's more visible critics of late have been retired military officers. And a provision of federal law ... makes it a crime, triable by court-martial," he wrote in a blog post on Lawfare. "But does the Constitution really allow the government to subject to military trial those who have retired from active duty -- in some cases, long ago -- even for offenses committed while they are retired?"

Yes, it does, according to the Supreme Court, in its denial of Larrabee's and Dinger's writs of certiorari.

Retired Maj. Gen. Charles Dunlap, former deputy judge advocate general of the Air Force, concurs.


My point, contentious as it is, is that Retired Officers, especially ones of Flag Rank, who certainly are in the know on such matters, are still subject to the UCMJ if they are receiving bennies and pay. The comments made by Mattis regarding the spurs implies cowardice in regard to the CINC. The comments by McRaven who advocates removing the President from office, but makes no reference to impeachment or elections really gives me pause. Exactly how should we do that, Admiral? The comments made by both do not reflect well on themselves, their rank, and do not uphold the fine traditions of their branch. The reason Article 88 exists is exactly for this reason, and especially applies to Officers. When a General Officer like Mattis, who certainly has a "cult of personality" following, makes disparaging remarks about the CINC of all the armed forces, it only has a negative impact all the way down the line. Oh, Trump called you overated? Suck it up and live with it. Laugh all the way to the bank if you wish. The military is not the place to play tit for tat. You and I both know that as we both have served.

But I hope this sets your mind at ease that I did, in fact, read what I posted.

Yeah, I'm sure it took awhile sounding out all those multiple syllable words.
As for the cookie I owe you, when you and the Fam get done jet-setting and globe trotting around in the G6 on all these vacations you've been taking, and you actually decide to teach another class, I will bring you a whole box of cookies. (If my Mom lets me go)

[BehindBlueI's]

Sorry it took so long to reply, my Mom isn't home, so I had to go up stairs and heat my own Hot Pockets. It would be really cool if I had a microwave in the basement.
Can only drop a link and cut and paste a small snippet as my Mom locked up the big jar of paste after "the incident"

Microwaving a Hot Pocket? Holy shit, nobody can doubt your bravery. That's ballsy as Hot Pockets only have three settings, frozen, magma hot, and exploded. That's why I'm not allowed to use the microwave unsupervised, so a little jealous there.

Yes, I get that he could be charged, I just think it's such a tiny chance he would be, let alone convicted, let alone sentenced to anything really punitive for a "bone spurs" joke, that it doesn't really rate worrying about. I would worry more about going 56mph in a 55mph zone on the way to the speech. Technically illegal, not likely to result in life altering punishment.

As far as the severity of his comments or the appropriateness, I think you called it "chump change" for Mattis. I agree. It's pretty low grade stuff to joke about bone spurs, particularly when POTUS cast the first stone. Loyalty goes both ways. I'll agree with Blues (I know, I'll pause for those who've fainted to recover enough to continue) in that Trump brought that on himself. If Mattis were still active duty, fine. Retired, he gets more of a pass from me regardless of what the UCMJ has to say. Plus it was funny, and I can forgive a lot of asshole if it's funny in it's presentation. On the more serious side, "I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..." Sometimes you just have to do what you think is right and accept whatever consequences that brings.

As far as me teaching another class, maybe. I don't have anything planned in 2020 but if there's enough interest within driving distance and a friendly host who wants to take care of the basic logistics (like cookies) I could probably work something out. As long as it doesn't interfere with my vacations. Or work, I guess. But mostly vacations.

Oh, and I don't know how you got my browser to crash just before submitting this way too long reply the first time, but that was dirty pool.

[GJM]

It has been a while since I checked, but does anyone senior in experience with the military still work for this administration?

[BehindBlueI's]

It has been a while since I checked, but does anyone senior in experience with the military still work for this administration?

Mark Esper is a veteran of Desert Storm, 10 years active and enough reserve time to get a pension. I don't know about anyone else.

[Zincwarrior]

When the president flaunts the law, established rules and precedent he can and often does appear despotic. Yet he gets a pass for his behavior. (Because the opposition is so distasteful to us for any variety of well established reasons.)

When those who have served their countries honorably criticize a man who doesn't mind tearing down everyone around him, (former) friend and foe alike, they're expected to take the high road.

Don't get me wrong, wv, I respect both you and your point of view...but at a certain point...what goes around comes around, Article 88 or not.

Trump literally started it, calling him over rated.

[Bucky]

Microwaving a Hot Pocket? Holy shit, nobody can doubt your bravery. That's ballsy as Hot Pockets only have three settings, frozen, magma hot, and exploded.

Not as ballsy as actually eating the hot pocket. I hope he has a toilet in that basement.

[Hambo]

Did you even read what you so hastily did a cut and paste job on?

You should read the links included in Breitbart article you posted. Then you would understand that Mattis would have to wait in line for court martial, if it could even be pursued.

[jetfire]

Do I have to make statements that are contempuous of the president or can I just hold that contempt deep inside my heart?

[Sensei]

Mattis is retired. I don't know nothing about nothing, but from a law blog that purports to:



Seems like he probably doesn't have much to worry about.

Mattis and McRaven are far more likely to be sitting in the Oval Office in 2 years than standing before a Court Martial.

[mtnbkr]

Do I have to make statements that are contempuous of the president or can I just hold that contempt deep inside my heart?

If Jimmah Carter can lust in his heart, I'm sure you can be contemptuous in yours.

Chris