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Thread: T-Class A1 Target

  1. #1
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    T-Class A1 Target

    Hello everyone!

    What is your oppinion on this target?

    It is to be used in Bulgaria for military applied sport T-class, which was created recently.
    https://t-class.bg/%D1%83%D0%BF%D1%8...%D0%B8-%D0%BF/

    This target was created with the idea of Bulgarian special forces officer Бързия Боби /Fast Bobby /
    With the help of: https://t-class.org/ english version

    This is the final result, to which doctors also contributed.
    http://thegunman-bg.com/forum/viewto...?f=102&t=17200

    There are many controversial opinions on this topic.

    Your opinion is highly appreciated.

    Thank you!
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    Last edited by Poseidon; 12-18-2018 at 04:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Revolvers Revolvers 1911s Stephanie B's Avatar
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    How is that target scored?
    If we have to march off into the next world, let us walk there on the bodies of our enemies.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie B View Post
    How is that target scored?
    If i understand the question correctly, here is what it's made of, hard cardboard. Some find it not suitable for civil training. How do you think?

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
    If i understand the question correctly, here is what it's made of, hard cardboard. Some find it not suitable for civil training. How do you think?
    *snip*
    Stephanie B's question was asking how points or scores are graded or evaluated based on the exact location of the hit on that target.
    For example, is the center target area graded at 10 points but the outside edge of the target only graded as 5 points.

    It looks like a very practical and useful target pattern. It is a simple chest/head area target and if some folks are made uncomfortable by the idea of using weapons as weapons, perhaps they should take up knitting instead of shooting.
    I do not understand people who wish to pretend that shooting skills with firearms are not fundamentally a combat discipline. I have even less understanding of people who insist that there is such a thing as a firearm that is not useful as a weapon. In a time of need, even a single shot target pistol or a skeet shotgun is far better than no firearm at all.
    Pretending that firearms are not weapons, and that lawful people have no use for effective weapons like firearms is completely and profoundly ignorant of some of the worst violence ever done on otherwise defenseless civilian populations in the past 300 years.
    But as a shooter and gun owner, and specifically, one who carries a firearm regularly - I have a duty and obligation to know all of the laws applicable to firearms and the use of lethal force, and I also have a duty to avoid conflict and violence if at all possible, and only use my weapon out of genuine necessity to stop an *immediate* threat of severe injury or loss of life.
    These concepts should be universal and easy to understand among all who practice a fighting discipline.

    The weapon and fighting skills are of no worry or concern in lawful and peaceful hands. Those will evil intent will find a way to do evil - regardless of the laws. So long as cars full of Kalashnikov rifles are making their way to Paris, severe restrictions on firearms only reduce the lawful ability of peaceful people to defend themselves.
    Last edited by JRB; 12-18-2018 at 05:36 PM.

  5. #5
    Revolvers Revolvers 1911s Stephanie B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
    If i understand the question correctly, here is what it's made of, hard cardboard.
    The target has three zones. How many points are given for hitting the center zone, for the middle zone and for the outer zone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
    Some find it not suitable for civil training. How do you think?
    "What", not "how".

    JRB is correct. Firearms are weapons. We are being intellectually dishonest when we pretend otherwise. Clubs were weapons a long time before the Brits and Americans began using them to hit little round balls (cricket and baseball, respectively).
    If we have to march off into the next world, let us walk there on the bodies of our enemies.

  6. #6
    IPSC and IDPA don't satisfy so Fast Bobby drew his own target and made up rules.
    Or is it for Authorized Personnel only?

    Oh, found the English, it is a sniper event.
    Last edited by Jim Watson; 12-18-2018 at 07:29 PM.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  7. #7
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    Thank you for your post, Poseidon. I don't know a lot about long-range rifle competition but the English article you linked is an interesting read. I like that this first international event incorporated rules from the teamwork variation.

    Stephanie, I skimmed over the T-class rulebook at http://storage.dynamic-arms.com/t-cl...16.12.2017.pdf and as far as I can tell the relevant section for scoring is in the appendices at the end, which has separate tables for sniper rifles, semi-auto rifles and handguns. Point values for target zones (other examples given were a 4" circle on an 8.5x11 sheet of paper and a pair of plates, one circle and one rectangle) seem to be determined by their size in mils, though they can be modified to some degree by the stage designer.

    A Google translate of the forum link got me this, which I think is relevant:

    "The goal was to create a real anatomic target, recreating a well-trained shooter who does not have a stretched head, but has a helmet / ante-phone or other and has taken the correct stand against the competitor."

    I see that one of the photos posted in that discussion thread has a piece of paper stuck to the target to simulate a hard armor plate.

    It looks like there's a technical drawing for the dimensions of this T-class target in case enterprising folks over here in the States are curious.

  8. #8
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    I need to start from the beginning. Before 1989 civilians in Eastern Europe were not allowed to own a gun.

    After the regime changed every citizen of Bulgaria is allowed to carry a gun under certain circumstances.

    Bulgaria is a member of IPSC and that was the fastest growing sport here.

    Although when applied sport T class and this target were introduced some police officers said they see it as a threat. Meaning they see it dangerous for civilians to practice with this target. What they imply is with some practice everyone will be able to counteract when being arrested for example.

    It might be a bit hard to understand but that's a way of thinking from the past.

    Here you can download a pdf of the target:

    http://thegunman-bg.com/forum/viewto...?f=102&t=17420

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
    Meaning they see it dangerous for civilians to practice with this target.

    Bulgarian police aren't the only ones afraid to let civilians train this way. People in power all over the world are afraid of capable armed civilians.

    That is why IPSC adopted the classic target instead of continuing to use the USPSA metric target. IPSC was scared of the impression the human looking targets would give observers.

    Good luck!

  10. #10
    Member Balisong's Avatar
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    Since you asked for our opinions, mine is this:

    It looks like someone wasted a lot of time, effort, and money instead of using existing USPSA/IDPA targets.

    But good for you guys getting some gun privileges and doing shooting sports.

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