A better question would be does slide to frame fit matter on Berettas like it does with 1911s ? My guess, based on the method of lock up is no. I can tell you on some designs, like classic SIG P series guns slide to frame fit has zero effect on accuracy.Originally Posted by ccssid
Last edited by HCM; 12-19-2018 at 01:17 AM.
IMHO the most important aspect of 'lock up' is barrel to slide fit as the barrel needs to line up with the sights. Other aspects of the pistol are much more important at any reasonable combat pistol shooting range. Characteristics like quality of sights, quality of trigger and ergos play a bigger role than slide/frame fit.
Case in point using my own collection & experience: my SIG P220 Elite SAO 10MM has a slide/barrel/frame fit that locks up like a bank vault while the slide/frame fit on my P226 RX SAO is probably the sloppiness fit of all my pistols. However the sights, ergos & especially thst awesome SAO trigger make the P226 the most accurate pistol I have ever shot. I would imagine slide/frame fit becomes more important as the range increases.
My WC Berettas and LTT are pretty darn tight, and with the exception of a slightly asymmetrical front slide on my Cen Tac are very nicely machined.
Last edited by JimLob65; 12-19-2018 at 06:37 AM.
To be honest, and this is just my opinion, I don't think slide to frame fit matters that much on a 1911 either.
I did a little playing around with the barrel on my LTT, trying to wiggle it. It won't move at all. Some of the others I could get a little wiggle out of, but not the LTT.
I don't know how much it really matters beyond the whole pride of ownership "wow this thing locks up like a bank vault" type sentiment. That said, it is tighter than some production level 1911's I've played with that are in the LTT price range.
Interesting. Do you think it’s the locking lugs / slide stop pin ? Or something else ?
Last edited by HCM; 12-19-2018 at 11:42 AM.
Yes, the Berettas are interesting in that it is the barrel / locking block fit that matters and you can have a good shooting gun with a barrel that appears to sit asymmetrically in the muzzle end of the slide.
In my opinion, the best way to get an accurate 1911 is to start with a solid base gun that adheres to the proper specifications and then add a custom fit match barrel. Even a drop-in barrel bushing is okay as long as it is within around .004" clearance.
As an example, the Colt Special Combat Government is a really nice and accurate pistol. But all the Custom Shop does with these is hand polish them, custom fit a National Match barrel, and a trigger job. I think they also blend the grip safety. Because the base gun is built to a rigid specification, the holes are all exactly in the right place, and high quality parts are used, the hand fit NM barrel enables the SCG to shoot with just about anything out there even with its average slide to frame fit.
The new Custom Competition has a tight slide to frame fit and is super nice, but more expensive than the SCG.
As far as the recoil spring goes, I thought stock was 13lb? So that means the Brigadier Tactical and Elite LTT would both come with a 13lb. I put 16lb wolff units in my Elite LTT and Brigadier Tactical since both run 13lb hammer springs and I want the slide back to a more stock rearward velocity. I also don't shoot any "light" loads.
I have both. I like both.
However, I think the Elite LTT is the better "shooter's gun" and a hell of a lot more value. It is nearly $200 cheaper in base form and on the Brigadier Tactical I changed the grips to Ultra Thins (after getting my Elite LTT, I now see this is the way to go) and need to send my slide off to Trijicon or someone else to get sights because I do not like the factory rear.
Also, my Brigadier Tactical has the action tune and I would say the Elite LTT's trigger job is a little better. Both are good, but I would rate the Elite LTT's ahead. Initially I was underwhelmed with the Action Tune but the store I bought it from had the chrome silicon spring upgrade done to it as well and I think they needed a few cycles before settling in. This surprised me, as the Elite LTT uses the WC trigger bar and the WC Brigadier Tactical does not. I though that trigger bar actually increased the DA pull a bit but let you get away with a lighter hammer spring (increased arc, more leverage on primers) but all hammer springs being equal it would actually have a little bit more DA pull.
I don't shoot nearly as much as many of the users here and have never even seen a shot timer, let alone used one. So I can't comment on if one slide is slower or faster than the other. I will say that I love the Brigadier slide. I think it gives the pistol a heft that I can appreciate and is sexy as hell. I wish that Ameriglo would come out with a Spartan sight set for the Brigadier slide though. I feel that the Brigadier slide has less muzzle rise, but that is an unscientific and amateur opinion that may very well be incorrect.
The hotspot relief on the Elite LTT is not to be underestimated though. I have hands large enough to where even a 100-200rd range session will begin to feel them. If I was the type to shoot 1000rds a week then this would be the ONLY way to go. Also, I don't know what it is as I haven't been able to discern exactly what the difference is but the contour of the frontstrap just feels better on the Elite LTT to me. I thought the angle from the checkering to the side of the frame was different but comparing side by side the radius looks identical. The Brigadier Tactical's checkering looks different so initially I thought there was more meat on its frontstrap but now I can see that they just cut that checkering deeper.
Please excuse the mega-post....didn't mean to blab this much. In the world of 1000 dollar pistols + or - a few hundred I doubt will matter to many (sure doesn't to me) but I feel the Elite LTT is the better value and "shooter's gun" but I still love my Brigadier Tactical and it will never leave my collection.
Visually, I love the Brigadier slide but don't really care for the rounded trigger guard.
Last edited by falar; 12-20-2018 at 01:22 PM.
I agree. I'm not sure why Wilson spec'd all his Beretta models to have this. Would prefer the square trigger guard on my compact.
I've thought about it too. Either he's old school and likes the early Berettas or did it to look more like the 92A1 which if I remember right is what got them started on Berettas. My money is on the latter since later on they also switched to the 92A1 style 2 slot rail.
I think they started offering 92A1 customization a year or two before they announced the Brigadier Tactical and possibly wanted a consistent look.
I've seen a few others say they like the rounded trigger guard (usually because they have an S or earlier and are certainly old school) but I've seen far more people who agree with us. I like the shape of the Elite LTT/M9A1/92G-SD trigger guard the most personally.
Last edited by falar; 12-20-2018 at 01:30 PM.
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