Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: A discussion on reloading practice practicality

  1. #1
    Site Supporter Ob1sbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Bradenton

    A discussion on reloading practice practicality

    I was recently talking to a friend on the merits and practicality of practicing the 1 reload 1 drill and reload practice in general. The conversation went down the proverbial rabbit hole and I have decided to bring it to PF. I have since found two write ups that I find particularly interesting on the topic. This post is not for or against the practicing "speed" reloading but merely to start a discussion on what I am sure is a heated topic. I find these two write ups particularly interesting as they both seem to go against the common group think at the time of the post(less so in the case of Todd's post). Lastly I must say I find valid points on both sides of the house and will for ever regard the F.A.S.T drill as my favorite drill of all time.

    http://www.vdmsr.com/2018/12/trainin...loads-and.html

    http://pistol-training.com/archives/9715

  2. #2
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Quote Originally Posted by Ob1sbo View Post
    I was recently talking to a friend on the merits and practicality of practicing the 1 reload 1 drill and reload practice in general. The conversation went down the proverbial rabbit hole and I have decided to bring it to PF. I have since found two write ups that I find particularly interesting on the topic. This post is not for or against the practicing "speed" reloading but merely to start a discussion on what I am sure is a heated topic. I find these two write ups particularly interesting as they both seem to go against the common group think at the time of the post(less so in the case of Todd's post). Lastly I must say I find valid points on both sides of the house and will for ever regard the F.A.S.T drill as my favorite drill of all time.

    http://www.vdmsr.com/2018/12/trainin...loads-and.html

    http://pistol-training.com/archives/9715
    I’m all for reload practice, for sport and defensive drills like F.A.S.T., 4 Aces, El Prez, etc.

    But I have a secret.

    I always carry a reload, but for the most part I don’t carry it in the same place that I would for sport or drills. Why? Comfort. Low probabiity that I will ever need it AND that I will also have to do a reload “on the clock” in a defensive context.

    Yes, I could carry that defensive reload in my ‘speed’ pouch/location, but I save that for when I go somewhere sketchy. But then again I really avoid going anywhere sketchy.

    Bad GL. Shame on me.
    Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?

  3. #3
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    South Louisiana
    I retired my 4" M10 based on Tom Givens' input referenced in the first linked article. I have 18 rounds on tap in my usual carry gun and carry a 20 round mag (downloaded to 19 for ease of insertion) as a reload. The spare mag is always in the same place because I'm old, dumb and klutzy. I rarely practice reloading due to perceived limited utility but need to up my game since I've started shooting IDPA again. I bought a ream of 8-1/2x14 paper specifically for FAST targets and just got some more ink for the printer, so that'll probably happen. It's in the "better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it" realm of usefulness, IMO.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Allen, TX
    Some thoughts on reloading practice:

    1. Hitting is more important than reloading, so spend lots more time and ammo on that.
    2. The 1 - RL - 1 drill is not as valuable as it could be. Suggest you always practice from a ready position (not the holster) and make it 1 - RL - 2, since anybody can get lucky with one hit, but it's harder to get two good hits after a reload, especially if you jacked up your grip and/or trigger work after the load, which I find common. 1-RL-2 also conveniently uses up a 15 round magazine and gives you five reps, which is plenty for a session.
    3. In conjunction with #2, use a tight target, such as a B-8 to really drive the shooting fundamentals home on this handling drill.
    4. Work the spare magazine from concealment or duty pouches, as applicable, in the place and manner you carry them. Otherwise, you're engaged in wasted training time and effort.
    5. Work much harder on perfect execution and perfect hits over a focus on speed.
    6. Compartmentalize your tasks: shoot well when you're shooting and load well when it's time to load. "Crossover" thinking will nearly guarantee failure of the task at hand if you worry about the load when shooting or worrying about hitting when reloading. (Thanks to Pat Rogers for that wisdom)
    7. See #1 again. Get your hits in a fight and the reloading shouldn't come up as an issue. In fact, it's very hard to find a real world need for it in actual fights, and when it has been an issue, missing was the causal factor.
    Last edited by Wayne Dobbs; 12-17-2018 at 09:45 AM.
    Regional Government Sales Manager for Aimpoint, Inc. USA
    Co-owner Hardwired Tactical Shooting (HiTS)

  5. #5
    Gucci gear, Walmart skill Darth_Uno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    STL
    I carry my spare mag at 11:00. The chances of me being in a gunfight in my day to day life are incredibly slim, and if I do the chances of needing all 15 rounds (or heck, even 8 rounds if I’ve got my 43) are slimmer yet. What I might have to do though is remove and replace a faulty mag. I don’t want to hunt around for it, I want it in the gun as soon as possible.

    For safety issues at work, work I tell my guys, “If it’s predictable, it’s preventable.” If it could happen just take a step to mitigate the chances. Heck, that’s just common sense. I mean, set your drink in the middle of the table instead of on the edge. You just lowered the chances of a stray elbow knocking it over. Carrying a spare mag in an expedient location just lowered the chances that you’ll be completely FUBAR’ed if time ends up being a luxury you don’t have.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    New Mexico
    Gunfight shooting skills hierarchy:
    1. Getting the first hit on target (fast and accurate first shot).
    2. Following up that first hit with more hits (fast and accurate followup shots).
    3. Keep the gun running (reloads and malfunction clearance).

    With my somewhat limited training time these days I spend the vast majority of my range time on the first two because those two have the highest probable "return on investment" for self defense gun use.
    If I was working towards a FAST coin or USPSA classification my priorities might change.
    Last edited by JodyH; 12-26-2018 at 02:05 PM.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  7. #7
    Most games, whether they be a FAST or USPSA, severely penalize poor accuracy after reloading. With FAST one second for a body shot out, and with USPSA using 5.0 hit factor as an example, the penalty is .40 for a C and .80 for a D. You have to have a smoking reload to overcome those levels of penalties.

    People smarter than me have said that you should practice speed, and practice accuracy, but generally this works best when done separately. In other words, practice going like hell on speed, and separately practice to a very high accuracy standard. If you only practice reloads with high accuracy, you will either guarantee you have a slow reload, or you will die of natural causes before you make meaningful progress.

    Dry fire without actually pressing the trigger is a great place to make progress on speeding up your reload.

    When I shoot a different pistol, I examine the magazine and magazine well closely to learn the sweet spot of a particular gun. On a pre Gen 5 Glock, for example, I find the sweet spot is the rear of the mag well, but in a VP9 the sweet spot is towards the front of the mag well.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  8. #8
    Member Peally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Wisconsin, USA
    I say this a whole lot here, but I'll say it again anyway.

    I think you're over-analyzing it. Just practice reloading so you're proficient, it's a part of shooting just like anything else.



    If everyone else didn't need that skill in their defensive/USPSA/drill shooting situation you bet your ass you're gonna end up drawing the short straw and you'll need it.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

  9. #9
    Member ubervic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Mid-Atlantic
    It's very simple to me: I practice all handling and manipulations so that they are as efficient and bobble-free as possible, as all support safe and efficient gun-handling. Loading, reloading, removing/dumping mags, holstering, drawing, resholstering, etc. While some manipulations are certainly more pressing than others and therefore command more attention with practice/drills, etc., all are important and receive enough attention so as to make them comparably easy to perform repeatedly without stumble or error. I don't measure or track my reps of each manipulation, per se, as that's overkill for my purposes. I just perform each with enough rhythm to become completely comfortable with it.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Devoting a lot of time to reload practice is probably not the best use of one’s time. Devoting a little time to it is certainly warranted.

    However, one may make a determination that reloads are important as some type of personal metric or in one’s chosen competition realm. By all means then, devote the extra time to it in that case.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •