bomb threat on a bus

[Byron]

if a cop is on the bus what would he do; IMO he would get up and draw a weapon and make an effort to control the subject

In your opinion that is what he would do? On what do you base your opinion?

With zero training, and obviously zero familiarity with such issues, why are you assuming you know how a cop would react?

Here's the beauty of having such a diversity experience at your fingertips: you don't have to assume or give your opinion about what a cop would do in this situation. There are dozens of cops on this forum! Just ask them!

Hint: the cops who have replied to this thread so far have not said that they would have a standard response of "SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT!!!!"

And If a cop got on the bus and took a shot at the BG and MISSED and killed a civilian would it make the screw up any less than a screw up then if I did it?

If a cop got on the bus and shot an innocent, it's just as big of a screw up as if you did it. But again, where are you getting this idea that a cop is going to jump up and open fire?

You have repeatedly told us your policy. We get that. But you're rationalizing by claiming that it's the same thing a cop would do. Where do you have any authority to make such a claim? You have absolutely no idea what a cop would do in this situation, and rather than listen to the people on this forum who do have some idea, you just keep marching along.

we learned for 9-11 that sitting back and waiting can be a death sentance anyway. too many times we have been told to be a rabbit (this is what rabbits do; sit and wait for danger to pass in hopes they are not caught) and people are not wanting to be victims because someone says we have to. here are two cases that could have turned out different if the rabbits listened to the man.

shoe bomber:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_shoe_bomb_plot
underwear bomber:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_Farouk_Abdulmutallab

You are very skilled at offering non-sequitur "evidence" to bolster your position.

Again: there is a world of difference between seeing a man setting something on fire, and a rambling idiot who stands up and starts belligerently shouting.

The number of active duty LEO's is the least of the ways in which you have violated the discussion chart. You aren't addressing most people's points, you are making wild assertions without basis, and you refuse to drop premises that have been shown as faulty.

I'm trying to find the appropriate language to say this, but your critical-thinking troubles me. It does not help that you do not always express yourself very clearly: sometimes your statements take time to decipher.

Do you mind if I ask how old you are?

[barstoolguru]

you all are right... I changed my mind... I will just sit there and be a rabbit

[SteveK]

my 2A and the laws in my state give me the right to defend myself weither its at tier1 or teir 20 anytime I am in fear for my life!!!

I was reading I have found out that grayhound has a no gun in baggage or body policy and does a search in some terminals if not all of them so most likley a gun is not in the plans.

so now we are back to do you get involved and try to stop the bomber. some say leave it up to the law and I say the law is miles away and I am not. we learned for 9-11 that sitting back and waiting can be a death sentance anyway. too many times we have been told to be a rabbit (this is what rabbits do; sit and wait for danger to pass in hopes they are not caught) and people are not wanting to be victims because someone says we have to. here are two cases that could have turned out different if the rabbits listened to the man.


shoe bomber:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_shoe_bomb_plot

underwear bomber:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_Farouk_Abdulmutallab

And in the process of defending your 2nd Amemndment Rights you unintentionally cause the death of a single innocent person, much less a busload...how is that a win? Terroristic threat and hostage situations are multi-faceted, ever changing scenerios and there is never a single, comprehensive plan that will cover all situations that could arise from these types of incidents.

[bdcheung]

why stick a gun in his face? the same reasoning a cop would do it; to control the situation; and then see the reaction.

God help us if the immediate reaction of police officers is deadly force.

[barstoolguru]

And in the process of defending your 2nd Amemndment Rights you unintentionally cause the death of a single innocent person, much less a busload...how is that a win? Terroristic threat and hostage situations are multi-faceted, ever changing senerios and there is never a single, comprehensive plan that will cover all situations that could arise from these types of incidents.

if he blows the bus up because every one on the bus is a rabbit and lets him how is that a win?

God help us if the immediate reaction of police officers is deadly force

"Alpizar then approached the marshals in an aggressive manner, at which point two or three shots were fired, he said."
edit : now so could say they should have tackeled him or even tasered him because after all he did get past the screening but they chose to SHOOT him (god help us )
http://articles.cnn.com/2005-12-07/u...plane?_s=PM:US

[bdcheung]

"Alpizar then approached the marshals in an aggressive manner, at which point two or three shots were fired, he said."

http://articles.cnn.com/2005-12-07/u...plane?_s=PM:US

The marshals' first move was to confront him verbally, not shoot him

[barstoolguru]

The marshals' first move was to confront him verbally, not shoot him

point being they they SHOT him over a threat of a bomb !!! no proof ,just a threat. "they were in fear for their lives" just like me

"A 44-year-old U.S. citizen who claimed to have a bomb was shot and killed when air marshals opened fire on a boarding bridge at the Miami airport, several sources told CNN. No bomb was found."

what makes this different then a bus outside of the Obvious?

[jmjames]

if he blows the bus up because every one on the bus is a rabbit and lets him how is that a win?

What you are refusing to even consider, what everyone here is telling you (some of whom are trained LEOs), is that the only possible way your "plan" could make it better is if you are dealing with a very rational bomber who announces his intentions to ignite the bomb without being in a position to do so.

Replace "bomb" with "gun". If you were on a bus, and without warning, someone had a gun pointed directly at you, would you lift a finger? No, of course not, because unless you are the most amazing gunfighter in the world and up against the least agile person on the planet, there is no way you are going to clear your gun, aim, and fire quickly enough to overcome the fact that he has a gun pointed at you already.

The only time your "plan" succeeds is if you are dealing with someone who is *talking* about having a bomb but hasn't actually displayed it or a detonator. And as others have pointed out, that's a great way to make a horrific mistake.

J.Ja

[barstoolguru]

"is that the only possible way your "plan" could make it better is if you are dealing with a very rational bomber who announces his intentions to ignite the bomb without being in a position to do so."

but he did, he jumped up and said "I have a bomb"

[jmjames]

Replace "bomb" with "gun". If you were on a bus, and without warning, someone had a gun pointed directly at you, would you lift a finger? No, of course not, because unless you are the most amazing gunfighter in the world and up against the least agile person on the planet, there is no way you are going to clear your gun, aim, and fire quickly enough to overcome the fact that he has a gun pointed at you already.

Le sigh. How exactly does this work when you are seated (like most bus riders tend to be)?

More to the point... unless you are right next to the would-be bomber when they announce their intentions, what exactly are you going to do about it? There is NOTHING that you can do to beat a guy with a button detonator unless you are on top of them to begin with. And as others have mentioned many times, if the bomb is on a dead man switch, your little hero routine just killed everyone.

There's clearly no point in discussing this further, you've got your "plan" all worked out, I just hope you never are in a place to execute on it.

J.Ja