Off-duty/retired LEO in states with mag capacity limits

[Jason M]

What all active and retired LEO’s are forgetting is HR218. It also has case law backing it as well. It says all active and retired law enforcement can carry a gun in any state as long as they follow there states qualification laws. In NJ law enforcement has to qualify twice a year. You have to have your retired or active ID and your most recent qualification on you. The US AG took out all grey areas. There were three lawsuits where 2 retired and one active law enforcement were arrested. The cases were dismissed and there were law suits that had hefty pay outs to the 3.


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To which cases are you referring? I would love to have the citations if they are available to you. One of the groups that I teach is PA constables. This issue always arises in class discussions.

[Rangers13]

To which cases are you referring? I would love to have the citations if they are available to you. One of the groups that I teach is PA constables. This issue always arises in class discussions.

I have to look for the names but one was in NC and the other in Mass. The third I am not sure might have been NC as well. It should be under the HR 218


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[Rangers13]

You're fortunate that he will let you do that. From what I understand, T&S maintains a list of local firearms instructors that Retired LEO's can seek out to get the yearly qualifications completed through. The only problem I have is that, from what I understand, they charge for the service.

After I get through the new year I am going to research it and see if my administration will allow me to do it at our range, free of charge.

Good luck. There are ranges that do the qualifications and also private instructors but they all charge. They have to pay for there certification as well every year and the range time.


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[CWM11B]

Good luck. There are ranges that do the qualifications and also private instructors but they all charge. They have to pay for there certification as well every year and the range time.


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Who has to pay every year as well? Instructors? Are you talking about NC or another state?

[DMF13]

. . . and Hornady Critical Defense in NJ to avoid any potential unpleasantness.

While it says nothing about magazine capacity, the LEOSA (as amended) does address ammunition:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926B

18USC926B(e)(2) states, "As used in this section, the term “firearm” . . . includes ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act . . ."

[DMF13]

Our agencies position has always been that federal credentials trump state law. The supremacy clause of the constitution (article IV, clause 2) applies to NJ too.

Point of Order. The "supremacy clause" is contained in Article VI, not Article IV.

[blues]

While it says nothing about magazine capacity, the LEOSA (as amended) does address ammunition:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926B

18USC926B(e)(2) states, "As used in this section, the term “firearm” . . . includes ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act . . ."

Correct. But as addressed previously in this and other threads, while HP ammo is clearly legal under LEOSA, (and I was in possession of a legal policy which covered LEOSA issues), the decision to carry the Hornady ammo was simply pragmatic so as to avoid having to waste time wrangling with the NJSP and / or the NJ courts in a worst case scenario while I had only so much time available to visit family and friends.

I had actually originally intended to carry my standard 147 grain HST ammo but cooler heads here convinced me that while I'd win the war, I'd be wasting hours I wouldn't get back if push came to shove.

I'm pretty much back to my original stubborn point of view now, however. NJ be damned.

[HCM]

Point of Order. The "supremacy clause" is contained in Article VI, not Article IV.

It can be in what ever clause it wants, because/Supremacy;-)

[Jason M]

Good luck. There are ranges that do the qualifications and also private instructors but they all charge. They have to pay for there certification as well every year and the range time.


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PA maintains a list of certified FIs for RLEO qualifications. There is no charge to be on the list. Any costs for con-ed to maintain my FI certification is covered by my job but PA has no fees for FI certification. I can only speak for myself, but there is no fee charged to RLEOs for my time. Cops past (and present) carrying during their day to day routine is a good thing! Some offer a few bucks as a thank you, some, like Blues, help with range chores, and some will bring a sixer of the FI's favorite malt beverage as a "payment". While I recognize that there are those who see the RLEO pool as a "for profit" opportunity, many do not.

Getting back to the original topic of the this thread:

I made a day trip to NYC yesterday to play tour guide for someone who had never seen the City's sights. Drove to Jersey City took the PATH to WTC station. The HCSO and NYPD guys with whom I had contact with were stellar! With no heads up, HCSO let me park in their secure lot. On a crazy court day no less. NYPD uniforms at WTC were true professionals and gave my tourist Dept. and unit patches after a photo op. There was no talk about being armed other than the NYPD guys offering up their lock boxes to enter the 911 memorial museum if is desired. Not that I was expecting different as this wasn't an "enforcement" contact like a traffic stop, but with all the anti-gun stuff going on, I was wondering. Thanks again NCSO and NYPD!

As Blues also mentioned above, sometimes its about bending a little to avoid the potential hassle. My job issues 147gr HST. While LEOSA specifically addresses HP ammo, NJ has caused some ass pain for LEOSA covered folks over this. Hornady Critical Duty 135gr shoots the same from my G43 as the issued HST. Other than the cost of buying a few boxes to check function/POI in the G43, its no skin off my ass. Yeah, on principle its wrong but, if it works and prevents a hassle, I'm willing to do it. I've decided just leave the G43 loaded with it since it is my off-duty travel gun for trips through/to 10 round states.

[TGS]

PA maintains a list of certified FIs for RLEO qualifications. There is no charge to be on the list. Any costs for con-ed to maintain my FI certification is covered by my job but PA has no fees for FI certification. I can only speak for myself, but there is no fee charged to RLEOs for my time.

In Jersey it's a money maker for the ranges. They all charge just like any other class open to public.

I just looked at a popular gun range in northern NJ, and the retired police officer/LEOSA qual is $70.