The New "1911" Pistols

[Tom Duffy]

I'd like to buy a new 1911 pistol in 9mm in a next spring to early summer timeframe. I intend it to be a nice higher (but not too high) end gun that I would enjoy shooting as a range gun and in Steel Challenge with an eye toward "enjoyable" rather than maximizing performance. The gun should be able to be carried though it wouldn't be often; therefore, reliability, for 1911 values of reliability, is an important consideration.

The sweet spot in terms of what I can afford in a aesthetically attractive gun seems to be a Dan Wesson Valor V-Bob Commander. It's a classic design with a standard barrel bushing.

I've noticed that there is a new wave of 9mm 1911 type guns that have been introduced in the last year that are non traditional designs. They feature bull or cone barrels of a 4 inch length without a bushing, the Wilson EDC X9 and new Ed Brown both have external extractors which also seems to be trending. They and the Dan Wesson ECP and TCP all seem to come in at about 30 ounces. Wilson even says its EDC X9 has a "4 inch Stainless Cone Barrel with Reliability Enhancing Lock-up".

So questions:
Is a 4 inch barrel more reliable than the same gun with a 5 inch barrel in 9mm?
Is a bushingless design more reliable than the guns that have a bushing or is it simply cost cutting?
Is an external extractor advantageous specifically for 9mm?
Does anyone have experience with how well Dan Wesson Valors in 9mm run?
Thanks for your input.

[RevolverRob]

So questions:
Is a 4 inch barrel more reliable than the same gun with a 5 inch barrel in 9mm?

4" and 4.25" barrels are more reliable than 5" guns, but not because of barrel length, because of reduced slide mass. 5" guns are pickier and while they shoot nice, when they work, they don't work as well as Commander-length guns.

Is a bushingless design more reliable than the guns that have a bushing or is it simply cost cutting?

I don't think it makes a difference one way or the other. The advantage of a bushing gun is a wider range of spring weights are available for a "Commander" length recoil spring system. Which if you're having reliability issues can help you tune them out.

Is an external extractor advantageous specifically for 9mm?

Properly tensioned internal extractors work just fine with 9mm guns. Nothing to really be gained by the external extractors in this realm.

Of more concern are ejectors. In my experience, Govt model 9mm guns absolutely require long-nose ejectors. Which if not properly fitted can cause some very bad things to happen (ejecting a live round could cause it to go bang if the primer hits the ejector nose). The upside to a Commander-length gun is it uses a more standard Commander length or slightly longer ejector where chances of this problem are reduced considerably (or entirely). External vs. Internal extractor makes no difference in this realm.

Does anyone have experience with how well Dan Wesson Valors in 9mm run?
Thanks for your input.

No direct experience with Valors, but DW 1911s are well built, feature no MIM parts, and are generally GTG from the factory. @Sidheshooter, @TC215, @Sensei, @StraitR (I think I recall you having a DW?) have more potential experience with DW 1911s.

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ETA: The key to getting a 9mm 1911 to run right is proper spring weights and good magazines*. Tripp Research mags are probably the best, I've had good luck with Wilson ETMs, but others have not. *Assuming the extractor is properly tensioned. Improper tension + wrong spring weights + cheap mags = Gun that doesn't work for shit.

[Robinson]

My thoughts:

Is a 4 inch barrel more reliable than the same gun with a 5 inch barrel in 9mm?

There may be some truth to this, but my personal experience did not show it. My 5" Colt 9mm pistols were just as reliable as my Commanders.

Is a bushingless design more reliable than the guns that have a bushing or is it simply cost cutting?

Neither. The bull barrel adds a little weight out front and may reduce muzzle rise a bit. I don't think they are any more accurate or reliable than a barrel with a bushing.

Is an external extractor advantageous specifically for 9mm?

The advantage of an external extractor is that it doesn't require fitting or tuning. The specific design either works well or it doesn't. Some manufacturers have better external extractor designs than others. I would trust an external extractor from S&W, Wilson Combat, and probably Dan Wesson. Others, not so much.

Does anyone have experience with how well Dan Wesson Valors in 9mm run?

I don't, but DW is generally highly regarded here on this forum. They do have issues sometimes like any other make, but they are a good value for the money.

[TCFD273]

TC215 would be the guy to ask about Dan Wesson 9mm’s

My only experience is WC. I have a 5” and a ULC Commander in 9mm. Both are 100% reliable, but require a more dedicated end user. If your a gun nut and like to take guns apart and are ok with working on them, go for it, if not see below.

You can find used EDC X9’s for around $2200 right now. I know that’s around $600 more than your budget, but if your new to 9mm 1911’s, it would be worth the investment.


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[gtmtnbiker98]

I own both a Dan Wesson VBOB and the Vigil CCO, both chambered in .45 ACP. The Commander was originally designed as a 9mm if memory serves me correctly. The DW ECP/TCP have bull barrels and the recoil spring assembly is rated to 15,000 rounds before replacement. That's impressive. In the realm of 9mm 1911's, Dan Wesson knows how to make them run. As stated earlier, Dan Wesson does not use any MIM or plastic parts in their builds.

As for reliability, the farther away from the original design, the more apt you are for reliability issues holds true for your lower end 1911 but not so much for the likes of DW, Brown, Wilson, and others. If you are staying strictly to the traditional 1911 then I wouldn't venture below 4.25". For the hybrids, go to the better hybrids makers - but they aren't traditional if that is something you are seeking.

[BillSWPA]

The nice thing about bushings is that they are softer than the barrel or slide, so it wears out instead of the barrel or slide. When the gun starts to lose accuracy, a new bushing will solve the problem rather than a new barrel or new slide.



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[rdtompki]

My wife and I compete in Steel Challenge with Springfield 9mm 1911s (Loaded Target). We're now in Idaho, but as recent escapees from California we had little choice in 9mm 1911s (Kimber the other choice). The guns have been 100% reliable of the 150K or so rounds we've put through (total) three of the guns. We also have two Kimber HD Pro Carry II in 9mm (converted from 38 Super due to CA regs). I like the balance of the 4" barrel and if we didn't already have a number of the Springers I wouldn't hesitate to compete or carry the Kimber.

[theJanitor]

I think the bushingless barrels unlock smoother/easier than barrels that utilize a bushing. And I believe that's part of Wilson's preferred "9mm package" of modifications

I've got an EDC X9 incoming, so I will have more of an opinion of that system soon

[TC215]

I’ve shot 9mm DW’s pretty extensively without any issues. All mine have been 4.25”, which is my preference.

I had Dan Wesson build be a 9mm VBOB about 4 years ago, before they were a standard offering, and also bought a production 9mm VBOB when they were released about 3 years ago. They are great guns, and a lot of fun. I don’t think you can go wrong with one.

5” 9mm’s can be reliable, but the slide can feel more sluggish, especially depending on the weight of the recoil spring. Dan Wessons are sprung a little on the light side, but again, I’ve had no issues.

Nothing wrong with a good external extractor.

I know Bill Wilson prefers 4” bushingless 9mm’s vs 4.25” 9mm, for what it’s worth.

[Jim Watson]

I seldom carry even my old Commander any more, it is usually Modern Plastic.

So anything on the 1911 pattern is going to be a five inch for its sight radius and "muzzle preponderance" (Extra credit for the author of that term.).
If offered good prices for my short guns, I would cheerfully liquidate in favor of a really nice full size 9mm.


I agree that reduced recoiling mass would be a mechanical advantage but short of the Nighthawk President or a custom steel gun, I don't know where to get it on a full size gun. You are dependent on good quality but conventional gun, good ammo and good magazine.