Ninety percent of shooting is trigger control

[Clusterfrack]

I liked the JJ/Seeklander interview. Rob Leatham has a ton of great advice, and I would love to train with him sometime. However I find his way of explaining things unnecessarily opaque.

I don't find it helpful to focus on trigger manipulation as the single most important aspect of the kind of shooting I train for. It is part of an integrated system, which includes:

Aiming: seeing the alignment and trajectory of the gun and the target
Stability: stabilizing the gun--grip, arms, body posture
Trigger press: rapidly firing the gun without disturbing the alignment. (This is very important, as the quote in my signature implies)
Timing: pressing the trigger at the right time in the recoil cycle
Recoil management: adjusting the recoil of the gun and orbit of the sights
Transitions and upper body movement: movement of the gun to the next target
Movement of the whole body

In training, I isolate parts of the system to identify weakness and improve.

[feudist]

I heard that podcast and I have to say they were talking over my head in that trigger discussion.

I took detailed notes.

[GJM]

I liked the JJ/Seeklander interview. Rob Leatham has a ton of great advice, and I would love to train with him sometime. However I find his way of explaining things unnecessarily opaque.

I don't find it helpful to focus on trigger manipulation as the single most important aspect of the kind of shooting I train for. It is part of an integrated system, which includes:

Aiming: seeing the alignment and trajectory of the gun and the target
Stability: stabilizing the gun--grip, arms, body posture
Trigger press: rapidly firing the gun without disturbing the alignment
Timing: pressing the trigger at the right time in the recoil cycle
Recoil management: adjusting the recoil of the gun and orbit of the sights
Transitions and upper body movement: movement of the gun to the next target
Movement of the whole body

In training, I isolate parts of the system to identify weakness and improve.

I think, by far, Robbie is the single greatest technical shooting instructor I have ever been around.

He actually makes a point of saying that the internet does not lend itself to high level instruction, which he believes is a very personal and physical thing. He believes that different words mean different things to different people, and that instruction should be delivered in person, individually. He also answers your questions with other questions, which while initially frustrating, is ultimately enlightening.

Don’t sell him short — I truely believe he is deservedly “TGO” for a reason. There is a reason that people like JJ go train with Robbie.

[Clusterfrack]

I think, by far, Robbie is the single greatest technical shooting instructor I have ever been around.

He actually makes a point of saying that the internet does not lend itself to high level instruction, which he believes is a very personal and physical thing. He believes that different words mean different things to different people, and that instruction should be delivered in person, individually. He also answers your questions with other questions, which while initially frustrating, is ultimately enlightening.

Don’t sell him short — I truely believe he is deservedly “TGO” for a reason. There is a reason that people like JJ go train with Robbie.

Totally. I would love to have the opportunity to train one-on-one with Leatham.

And, I'm sure I could handle his Yoda-style instruction. I've had a sensei or two who was like that. It's just not my preferred way of learning or teaching. IMO, technical words need to mean the same thing to different people because that's how we communicate effectively.

[GJM]

Totally. I would love to have the opportunity to train one-on-one with Leatham.

And, I'm sure I could handle his Yoda-style instruction. I've had a sensei or two who was like that. It's just not my preferred way of learning or teaching. IMO, technical words need to mean the same thing to different people because that's how we communicate effectively.

Ideally yes on technical words, but we have had knock down fights on PF, when people understood the same words, like “press out,” to mean very different things. I love it when people talk about “crisp” after market Glock triggers!

[Clobbersaurus]

I agree with GJM.

Was shooting B8’s at 25 yards on Sunday. Scores were in the high 80’s and I realized that I was yanking the trigger and anticipating recoil. I attribute my lack of trigger control to too much dry practice and not enough live fire. I also need to get back to wall drills and running the trigger at speed without moving the sights. I was back into the low 90’s once I told myself to stop being stupid and run the trigger properly.

[randyflycaster]

Can someone please post a link to the podcast? There were so many podcasts listed I couldn't find the right one.

Thanks,

Randy

[Dismas316]

Can someone please post a link to the podcast? There were so many podcasts listed I couldn't find the right one.

Thanks,

Randy

http://americanwarriorshow.com/index.html

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/c/2/e/c2ec...61b1efbaa0c3b1

[joshs]

Ideally yes on technical words, but we have had knock down fights on PF, when people understood the same words, like “press out,” to mean very different things. I love it when people talk about “crisp” after market Glock triggers!

Right. I think that for a lot of people, "trigger control" is how smoothly they press the tigger to the rear. This is important in precision rifle shooting, but it's importance in pistol shooting is easily disproven by something like John McPhee's "ratchet" demo. But, the way you are using "trigger control" includes preventing subconscious inputs into the firearm before the bullet has left the barrel.

As a theoretical matter, I find two Enos fundamentals is very useful:

1. Align the gun with the target (what you're calling aiming);
2. Maintain the alignment until the bullet leaves the barrel (everything that is not aiming).

How to best achieve these fundamentals is more complicated.

[Clusterfrack]

I liked the JJ/Seeklander interview. Rob Leatham has a ton of great advice, and I would love to train with him sometime. However I find his way of explaining things unnecessarily opaque.

I don't find it helpful to focus on trigger manipulation as the single most important aspect of the kind of shooting I train for. It is part of an integrated system, which includes:

Aiming: seeing the alignment and trajectory of the gun and the target
Stability: stabilizing the gun--grip, arms, body posture
Trigger press: rapidly firing the gun without disturbing the alignment. (This is very important, as the quote in my signature implies)
Timing: pressing the trigger at the right time in the recoil cycle
Recoil management: adjusting the recoil of the gun and orbit of the sights
Transitions and upper body movement: movement of the gun to the next target
Movement of the whole body

In training, I isolate parts of the system to identify weakness and improve.

Right. I think that for a lot of people, "trigger control" is how smoothly they press the tigger to the rear. This is important in precision rifle shooting, but it's importance in pistol shooting is easily disproven by something like John McPhee's "ratchet" demo. But, the way you are using "trigger control" includes preventing subconscious inputs into the firearm before the bullet has left the barrel.

As a theoretical matter, I find two Enos fundamentals is very useful:

1. Align the gun with the target (what you're calling aiming);
2. Maintain the alignment until the bullet leaves the barrel (everything that is not aiming).

How to best achieve these fundamentals is more complicated.

I agree--except: Once you move beyond slow fire static shooting, these aren't really fundamentals. I've seen USPSA shooters (mostly young guys) go from total hosers who can't hit anything to A,M, and even GM level without doing much direct work on accuracy or trigger control (in the strict sense). It's because they've been working on the whole system really hard, and it took them some time to put it together.

(I'm not recommending that as a training strategy.)