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Thread: STOICISM

  1. #31
    Hokey / Ancient JAD's Avatar
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    A good study of especially the neo Stoics is healthy for anyone, and there was an awful lot that they wrote that the Church Fathers were in deep agreement with, so much so that Dante placed Seneca in the first circle of Hell, which is about as good as he could get. Stoicism has led many very intellectual persons to Catholicism, as with Leah Libresco.

    The elements in which neo Stoicism differs most profoundly from Christianity are illuminating.

    1) Think about how the Stoics look on love, and see if you agree with it; at the very least, they see it as toxic to self-sufficiency. Contrast it with especially St. Paul's writing on the topic.
    2) Consider the goal of self control, which both the Stoics and the Christian ascetics considered a primary goal. Is the best end to master oneself, or to renounce the self?
    3) Relatedly, the Stoics see self sufficiency as a virtue ("The wise man is self-sufficient"), but at the same time they share the ascetics' perspective on inherent depravity. The Christians of course see the self as insufficient and external salvation as necessary. Does the first perspective lead one to nihilism? Are people usually able to overcome their nature by themselves?


    Good stuff to think about.

  2. #32
    The relationship between the Stoics and Christianity is a rich one: Logos, Christmas/Saturnalia, Marcus Aurelius view off Christians as histrionic, Seneca and Jesus walking the Earth simultaneously, Christians forging letters between Seneca and Paul, etc.

    Some links:

    https://howtobeastoic.wordpress.com/...-christianity/

    https://www.iep.utm.edu/neostoic/

    https://www.iep.utm.edu/lipsius/

    http://misc-stoica.blogspot.com/2015...-neostoic.html
    Last edited by Otaku.edc; 12-26-2018 at 05:50 PM.
    “The lion cannot protect himself from traps, and the fox cannot defend himself from wolves. One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves.” Machiavelli, The Prince

  3. #33
    Nice animated short on the Dichotomy of Control by the BBC, narrated by Massimo Pigliucci.

    “The lion cannot protect himself from traps, and the fox cannot defend himself from wolves. One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves.” Machiavelli, The Prince

  4. #34
    Fascinating thread. I found this interesting interview. https://fivebooks.com/best-books/mas...ucci-stoicism/
    I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎
    The lunatics are running the asylum

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by UNK View Post
    Fascinating thread. I found this interesting interview. https://fivebooks.com/best-books/mas...ucci-stoicism/
    I just finished the second book listed in the attached link: A Guide to the Good Life by Wm Irvine. One of the better sources I've read about Stoicism. Easily understandable for a "non-philosopher" like me, I learned alot.

    Appreciate the links others have provided.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by UNK View Post
    Fascinating thread. I found this interesting interview. https://fivebooks.com/best-books/mas...ucci-stoicism/
    Five Books is one of the best places on the internet. 📚🤓
    “The lion cannot protect himself from traps, and the fox cannot defend himself from wolves. One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves.” Machiavelli, The Prince

  7. #37
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    Bateson was not a Stoic, but his "Steps to an Ecology of the Mind" is in accordance with the Stoic ideal of living in harmony with Nature and the Stoic's Pantheism. I read this book as an undergraduate 40 years ago, and I still return to it for intellectual refreshment. The woman in the video presents it concisely and accurately. I like the vintage clips of Bateson too.


  8. #38
    Curious tidbit:

    HERCULES was/is a great role model for the Stoics, going back before the school was even founded.

    “The lion cannot protect himself from traps, and the fox cannot defend himself from wolves. One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves.” Machiavelli, The Prince

  9. #39
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    stoicism (and atheism) with a beat


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