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Thread: STOICISM

  1. #21
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    I've always admired the Stoics and find a great deal of value in their philosophy for living (and dying).
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  2. #22
    One of the biggest errors that popular culture makes about Stoicism is that it seeks to suppress the emotions by design and is therefore inhuman. The best example of this is Gene Roddenberry basing the character of Spock, on his erroneous understanding of Stoicism.

    This is a great talk by John Sellars about why that view is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Stoics believed

    Last edited by Otaku.edc; 12-11-2018 at 08:16 PM.
    “The lion cannot protect himself from traps, and the fox cannot defend himself from wolves. One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves.” Machiavelli, The Prince

  3. #23
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    Thank you for this video. It is a good explanation of Stoicism. It is grounded in more Greek terms though than the later Roman version of Stoicism. For instance, see Seneca's essay On Anger. He tells the story of a wealthy man who is so habituated to anger that he beats to death a servant for breaking a glass. It is our habits, the behavior we do repeatedly on a daily basis, that help us win or lose. We live in a modern world in which anger is condoned for the sake of seeking justice.

    Per Seneca, this habit will lead us not to making things better but worse. The incidents of road rage, mass shootings, riots, protests, and so on are not good for anyone, and work against the experience we are seeking, a sense justice in the world. The din of the digital age grows louder and more damaging. Notice how people now walk around looking at their smartphones. Human mind is universal.

    It is our habits that kill us, as we kill others. In a culture of intoxication, one that approves of more wealth as a virtue, and the self-indulgent right to express our passions as if there is no one else to consider, to respond when mad, will make us mad. See Seneca's plays, his tragedies, to see how this behavior will work out for you.
    Last edited by TNK; 12-12-2018 at 07:53 PM.

  4. #24
    @TNK: Seneca’s piece On Anger is terrific and very much not what is in fashion in the modern age. To call it a ‘madness’ as he does is the right description. I have Seneca’s plays, but those and his work On Natural Questions are the two areas I have not delved into yet.

    When you really get into Stoicism and it’s history, seeing how the Founding Stoics works and beliefs get unpacked from little nuggets here and there is fascinating. The HUNDREDS of works that have been lost is a travesty. And the fact that we even have, say the MEDITATIONS and DISCOURSES verges on miraculous when you investigate their history.
    “The lion cannot protect himself from traps, and the fox cannot defend himself from wolves. One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves.” Machiavelli, The Prince

  5. #25
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNK View Post
    Thank you for this video. It is a good explanation of Stoicism. It is grounded in more Greek terms though than the later Roman version of Stoicism. For instance, see Seneca's essay On Anger. He tells the story of a wealthy man who is so habituated to anger that he beats to death a servant for breaking a glass. It is our habits, the behavior we do repeatedly on a daily basis, that help us win or lose. We live in a modern world in which anger is condoned for the sake of seeking justice.

    Per Seneca, this habit will lead us not to making things better but worse. The incidents of road rage, mass shootings, riots, protests, and so on are not good for anyone, and work against the experience we are seeking, a sense justice in the world. The din of the digital age grows louder and more damaging. Notice how people now walk around looking at their smartphones. Human mind is universal.

    It is our habits that kill us, as we kill others. In a culture of intoxication, one that approves of more wealth as a virtue, and the self-indulgent right to express our passions as if there is no one else to consider, to respond when mad, will make us mad. See Seneca's plays, his tragedies, to see how this behavior will work out for you.
    That was interesting. For some reason it reminded me of this piece I'd just read from David French that seems to tie in albeit obliquely to your points. https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...UIQkTPwNwqNAZg
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  6. #26
    In regards to insults and Stoicism, someone to check out is William Irvine.
    “The lion cannot protect himself from traps, and the fox cannot defend himself from wolves. One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves.” Machiavelli, The Prince

  7. #27
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    When I say that I am a Stoic, but not a good one, I am alluding to the idea that I accept Stoicism in a heterodox mode. I am not interested in getting it just right, as we read in the ancient texts, but rather as it is adapted to the moment.

    Lawrence Becker's New Stoicism, which I read 20 years ago, wants to practice Stoicism, as I recall, with an understanding of modern psychology. This move is okay, as long as one admits that modern psychology fails its own standards for validity.

    Modern sensibilities still insist there is a there there. I doubt it. Read the novel The Recognitions by William Gaddis. Talk about being out of step with modern sensibilities. Its thesis that modern life is a forgery, and not a very good one at that, leaves everyone angry.

    The novel is 956 pages, and, when you are told you have wasted your life admiring a forgery, whether it be religion, art, or politics, it is no fun.

    Seneca says, in his letters, Stoics don't pray. Indeed: It is no fun to think you never had a chance. It is un-American.

    Go to the Wikipedia article on "Meaning-Making" and read it. Any choice you make from the list is good as long as it conforms to some modicum of reason. Stop reacting to the advertising that is modern life. Live deliberately.
    Last edited by TNK; 12-21-2018 at 02:13 PM.

  8. #28
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    “Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.”
    ― Seneca

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Dabbled. Mostly it was ingrained by my dad who could have written the book.
    This.
    #RESIST

  10. #30
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post
    This.
    Yep. My late father meets the qualification as well. Child of the Depression, grew up for much of his youth in orphanages and foster homes. Graduated high school, reunited the family, (mother, younger sister, two younger brothers...his father had abandoned them years earlier), and gave up being the first in the family to go to college to become their sole means of support.

    I had to find out about it from others.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

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