Russian training...

[Duke]

That’s gonna be a no for me dog....

[SeriousStudent]

How often do you get to see Darwin dumping bleach into the gene pool?

Sadly, not often enough.

[Joe in PNG]

What's Russian for "Hold vodka and watch this!"

[Cypher]

Hello!
What do you think of such drills? Only combat bullets from intimate distances are used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xObykrVBGD0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsIIyYWSfqU

You're dead to me I'm out.


I never thought I'd say this on PF but In before the lock

[Poseidon]

This reminds me of the ISIS "training" videos that have surfaced. They always reminded me of 14 year old boys playing army, only with real life full auto AKs. It's like they watch real western army training videos, which look cool, and are trying it themselves.

Or those middle eastern military videos, where they're jumping through hoops of fire in front of dignitaries. What does that have to do with combat capability? I guess those guys spend all their time training on silly stuff for VIPs.

What I did notice is that their gear and tactics are heavily influenced by US and western tactical gear. I'm surprised they don't have their own ideas and equipment, considering the Russian experience and general military competence.

Hi friends,
I'm from Bulgaria. I'm not a troll as implied by other users. We discuss this topic in Bulgarian forums as well.
http://thegunman-bg.com/forum/viewto...218620#p218620
And your opinion John C, I find very odd. Can you show me similar US special forces training? Do you really not see the purpose of this training?

[john c]

Hi friends,
I'm from Bulgaria. I'm not a troll as implied by other users. We discuss this topic in Bulgarian forums as well.
http://thegunman-bg.com/forum/viewto...218620#p218620
And your opinion John C, I find very odd. Can you show me similar US special forces training? Do you really not see the purpose of this training?

Welcome to the forum. I appreciate other viewpoints from around the world.

Assuming this training is with actual live ammunition, and not simunitions or similar non-lethal training ammo, the risk in the training outweighs the benefits.

Also, it appears that this training is, in fact, what we call a dog-and-pony show for VIPs, based on the bystanders in pavilions in the background. The amount of training necessary to have a flawless show is likely very scripted and therefore less useful than learning and applying principles to novel training scenarios.

Finally, I see no benefit to shooting live ammunition (again, assuming it's actually live) at targets a few inches away from the heads and bodies of fellow team members. Is this training, or just bravado on the part of the guys holding the targets and those shooting?

I agree with the other comment that this appears to be range kata. That's not indicative of real mastery. Also, time screwing around with learning these scripted scenarios is time away from learning real mastery. It looks good on TV, but what is the real world result?

I have no knowledge of US special forces training. The very limited tactical training I do with a team involves the application of flexible techniques, mostly problem solving, to scenarios we're likely to encounter. It's more fluid and principle based, to account for ambiguous situations. A lot of the training we do focuses on communication. There are very few, if any, rote actions. Though it might look a lot lamer than those videos, it works for us.

To the extent we discharge weapons in training, we use simunitions for actual force-on-force training. Most of that training involves NOT shooting, rather than shooting.

I recognize that I don't work in a counter-terrorist role. If anything like that happened, and if I wasn't there when it kicked off, I'll be on the perimeter.

[Hambo]

Can you show me similar US special forces training?

Fortunately, no.

[TGS]

Hi friends,
I'm from Bulgaria. I'm not a troll as implied by other users. We discuss this topic in Bulgarian forums as well.
http://thegunman-bg.com/forum/viewto...218620#p218620
And your opinion John C, I find very odd. Can you show me similar US special forces training? Do you really not see the purpose of this training?

Poseidon,

The videos you presented looked more like demonstrations than actual training to me. There's really no intrinsic training value in what they were doing, as it was all very staged. I think John C is probably correct in his assessment that those vides were actually taken as part of an exhibition.

You won't find similar training being conducted in the US that I know of. At one point CAG was doing live fire room entries with a live person playing the role as hostage, but I'm not in CAG and have no idea if they are still doing it.

Most training in the US values decision making under stress, usually conducted as force-on-force, as opposed to showing off how you can hit a target that your buddy is standing next to. The latter is actually very simple and not advanced, and is more theatrics than anything else....it simply requires accepting a large amount of risk. That risk doesn't have any real benefit in the grand scheme of developing capability.

I could do those drills all day long 7 days a week, and it wouldn't make me any more capable at my job.

The very limited tactical training I do with a team involves the application of flexible techniques, mostly problem solving, to scenarios we're likely to encounter. It's more fluid and principle based, to account for ambiguous situations. A lot of the training we do focuses on communication. There are very few, if any, rote actions. Though it might look a lot lamer than those videos, it works for us.

This.

I'd like to point out that unlike Russia, we don't have a habit of killing the hostages and bystanders along with the assailants.

We call that a clue.

[John Hearne]

Can you show me similar US special forces training? Do you really not see the purpose of this training?

I am familiar with at least one military entity that does live fire snake drills with rifles as part of their instructor program.

I have some contrarian thoughts that I'll try to put together.

[TGS]

I am familiar with at least one military entity that does live fire snake drills with rifles as part of their instructor program.

I have some contrarian thoughts that I'll try to put together.

The snake drills didn't even register to me compared to the other stuff. We don't purposely do live fire snake drills for the sake of doing snake drills, but the same concept of muzzle discipline is exercised in our live fire immediate action drills during our basic agent course where we get people running past each other.

Some classes naturally have less capable people and never do it live fire, only dry, as I believe live isn't actually required by the curriculum.

Totally different IMO than shooting the edges of a target around someone standing behind it, or live fire demonstrations of a shield work. That stuff is just aggrandizing showmanship.