I Owe An Apology re the P30

[LockedBreech]

Someone posted a few months back about whether a P30 V1 LEM was close enough to a striker-fired trigger to train with it. A few people emphatically answered no. I opined that the triggers felt pretty similar in dry fire (light takeup, wall) and I think it would be fine.

I had my first real side-by-side range trip last week with my HK P30 V1 LEM versus my Smith & Wesson 2.0 9mm 4" compact and...no. They're not close. Not in the same ballpark.

Both ran without issue, I enjoy the solid feel of the P30, and I don't think I will get rid of it, but it runs much much slower than the M2.0 for me. Frustratingly slower. Very hard for me to get good shoot strings off. I don't know if that's something that improves with time.

Anyway, I was wrong, y'all were right. They are not the same trigger system at all. They're both light and there are similarities, but running them at speed the differences come out strong.

[GJM]

The P30 is an awesome pistol, and broke much of the ground for the VP9. A LEM trigger has many real world handling advantages, but comes at a cost of being able to achieve less performance for a given shooter ability than many striker SA. and DA/SA trigger systems. There is no free lunch, and only you can decide whether that trade off makes sense for your ability and use for a pistol.

[Duke]

I just acquired a P30L Light LEM and I freaking love it thus far.

Read the whole “why the P30” thread by EL and am now digesting Todd’s tests with it.

[LockedBreech]

I should clarify that I still really like the P30 and I think for real world purposes it might be a better gun. That slight delay between shots tended to make me a bit more accurate. For the purpose of stopping accidental shots/panic shots/thoughtless rapid fire I think it does amazing. It's arguably an ideal LE/Mil trigger.

[hufnagel]

yea... see sig.

[LockedBreech]

yea... see sig.

My reaction after reading those: Hey, I accidentally said something smart!

[JonInWA]

I found the same to be true with my HK P30L V1 LEM and VP40 (both in .40); same 4.5' trigger break point weight, but totally different action and trigger feel to get to the break. I like both; I still feel that the LEM provides a superb threat management trigger, but it's eminently easier and faster to use the VP40 in competition; a month or so ago I had one of my best IDPA results ever with the VP, and that was shooting it without any heavy use prior to the match-only some concentrated dry fire.

After concentrating on the P30L for six+ months, it was still more of a struggle in competition. And then I essentially just pick up the VP40 and clean house with it...

Doubtlessly, however, the LEM has made me a better shooter across the board. And I feel competent with it, but I'm now more likely to choose the VP or one of my Glocks when shootability is paramount.

Best, Jon

[Bere09]

Someone posted a few months back about whether a P30 V1 LEM was close enough to a striker-fired trigger to train with it. A few people emphatically answered no. I opined that the triggers felt pretty similar in dry fire (light takeup, wall) and I think it would be fine.

I had my first real side-by-side range trip last week with my HK P30 V1 LEM versus my Smith & Wesson 2.0 9mm 4" compact and...no. They're not close. Not in the same ballpark.

Both ran without issue, I enjoy the solid feel of the P30, and I don't think I will get rid of it, but it runs much much slower than the M2.0 for me. Frustratingly slower. Very hard for me to get good shoot strings off. I don't know if that's something that improves with time.

Anyway, I was wrong, y'all were right. They are not the same trigger system at all. They're both light and there are similarities, but running them at speed the differences come out strong.

I completely agree with this as it mirrors my experience, however I disagree with others saying that this trigger is a positive in any way. Any trigger that causes you to be less accurate or decreases performance in any way is not a positive. I'd much rather have a gun that I know I can hit with at any speed consistently. And I'm not talking about race gun triggers here. Stock Glock, VP9, Beretta 92, Px4, CZs... there are numerous other options. If you want to talk "threat management", there are plenty of DA/SA guns that don't hinder the shooters performance. I really think it's the HK fanboy-ism that sparks the "threat management" excuses for a trigger that is a detriment to performance.

[HCountyGuy]

I completely agree with this as it mirrors my experience, however I disagree with others saying that this trigger is a positive in any way. Any trigger that causes you to be less accurate or decreases performance in any way is not a positive. I'd much rather have a gun that I know I can hit with at any speed consistently. And I'm not talking about race gun triggers here. Stock Glock, VP9, Beretta 92, Px4, CZs... there are numerous other options. If you want to talk "threat management", there are plenty of DA/SA guns that don't hinder the shooters performance. I really think it's the HK fanboy-ism that sparks the "threat management" excuses for a trigger that is a detriment to performance.

I suggest you read Dagga’s well-thought-out reasoning in the benefits of the LEM trigger.

I came from primarily shooting TDA Sigs and have found the LEM far more manageable than TDA. Granted there have been others whose experience with LEM runs counter to mine, but I certainly don’t see it as some hinderance. I’m by no means a high-level shooter, but there have been several who have run the LEM with no problems and within the same performance as other trigger systems. Yeah it’s not likely to win you a national title, but it’s not a gaming trigger. I’ve shot far more consistently with my P30 LEM than any other gun I’ve worked with, save one Glock 22 I could drive tacks with.

As for threat management, Dagga’s post linked above lays out the pros of the LEM for that role. He even provides an example of how the LEM made an OIS far simpler by not having to worry about de-cocking in the immediate aftermath of said shooting.

It’s one thing to speak negatively on the trigger because it doesn’t work for you, but to make such bold assertions it outright sucks for anything despite evidence to the contrary right here on this forum is asinine.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I fully agree with @HCountyGuy

I have nearly shot someone with a Glock w/stock trigger system. As DB relates, the situation changed in the middle of the trigger pull.
I am now much more comfortable with DAO and Glocks with NY1 trigger springs paired with - connectors. On anything with a light, short, crisp trigger I want a manual safety.
I'd love to spend some time with a P30 or P30sk with the 4.1 LEM to see how it shakes out for me.