Police Training-- Unrealistic Expectations?

[TGS]

Given the many past threads on this forum about how cops' shooting skills could benefit from getting into USPSA and/or IDPA shooting, is it insane to suggest that departments should cover match fees and provide ammo in order to incentivize cops to compete? Further, if there isn't a local match already, why don't departments start one? They might even make a profit, and that money could be put into more training and/or a higher ammo budget for training/match use.

Not insane, and it used to be commonplace. Departments would compete against each other all the time.

There was even an entire competition organization just for it, that IDPA, USPSA et al pretty much trace their roots to (as I understand it....I'm sure some diehard is going to blow their fucking lid at that statement).

It died out with a refocus of police hiring and culture, as well as austerity measures. That shit costs money, which most PDs don't have any of because nobody wants to spend taxes on essential government functions, but rather social programs. Now, the only widespread shooting competition between police is usually done as part of regional SWAT competitions.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I recall that for many years, the Dallas Sheriff's Office used to hold a monthly combat pistol match, which was run by some of their reserves (translated: wealthy guys who loved to shoot). This was always a multi-stage event that always had some kind of accuracy driven El Presidente variation. It was shot in either major or minor class, auto or revolver. Myself and a couple of Grand Prairie PD officers used to fight out the top three places most months and one time, there was this kid that showed up from Ontario, CA PD with a security holster and schooled some folks. Guess who that was??

We had lots of good times, lots of solid scenario shooting and lots of real gunfighters who had done the deed working on our skills every month.

Dallas PD used to run a PPC 1500 and the duty gun courses every month and it was always well attended by some amazing revolver shooters.

I miss those days and that fellowship and a fun way to do your frequent skills training!

[psalms144.1]

My agency used to let me voucher course fees, competition entry fees, etc, and provided 50 rounds of proficiency ammo/agent/month. Since I was the only agent in my office who shot at all outside of mandatory events, that meant I got 300 "free" rounds of ammo/month to train with - and, honestly, could shoot any reasonable amount I wanted.

Fast forward 16 years, and we now have to account for every round expended, by lot number, within hours of conclusion of a training session. We can only request ammunition on a per agent basis, with a maximum of 300 rounds PER QUARTER per agent, and we frequently get less ammo than we forecast.

Counting hours until retirement...

[lwt16]

I recall that for many years, the Dallas Sheriff's Office used to hold a monthly combat pistol match, which was run by some of their reserves (translated: wealthy guys who loved to shoot). This was always a multi-stage event that always had some kind of accuracy driven El Presidente variation. It was shot in either major or minor class, auto or revolver. Myself and a couple of Grand Prairie PD officers used to fight out the top three places most months and one time, there was this kid that showed up from Ontario, CA PD with a security holster and schooled some folks. Guess who that was??

We had lots of good times, lots of solid scenario shooting and lots of real gunfighters who had done the deed working on our skills every month.

Dallas PD used to run a PPC 1500 and the duty gun courses every month and it was always well attended by some amazing revolver shooters.

I miss those days and that fellowship and a fun way to do your frequent skills training!

We used to have that here before my tenure began. Occasionally, I'll walk past an old trophy and get extra furious that I missed out on that era.

Now we have to wait weeks on end to go to our own range.......just to practice with our own ammo. The times......they do indeed change.

[rsa-otc]

there was this kid that showed up from Ontario, CA PD with a security holster and schooled some folks. Guess who that was??

DB making friends and influencing people as a tadpole maybe?

But in all reality even in, wait for it...... NJ there was a large Police competition community in the late 70 and early 80's. And believe it or not we had a honest to god Governor's 20 award. We had twice a month Winter League matches located centrally in the state that were well attended. Many departments no matter what their size had their own ranges. Trenton NJ's range made way for an interstate. Many of these ranges faded away while others became revenue producers as Departments offered to rent their ranges to the surrounding departments. Then we saw targets that emphasized accuracy go by the wayside in favor of targets like the FBI Q and scoring hits pass/fail on the target to obstinately help in court cases. (in NJ at least as policy we only counted the hits until we got to the required number to pass the Q course and not beyond). Fast forward 30 years later this and budget considerations in turn led to our current culture. As I remember the old B-21 wasn't that bad a target with the X ring located somewhat higher in the chest.

While a 35% hit rate is abysmal it is still a tad better than the 25% hit rate I normally hear bandied about. Some departments have been able to leverage their meger training resources in to more respecable results. DB's old department, Baltimore PD (at one time) and Chuck Hazard's old department in Topeka come to mind.

Fortunately I am still in an organization that allows me to have a respectable training program and do things like monetary awards for the best accuracy for the training day, as well as the IBI handgun challenge that awards personnel with certificate and up to $200 gift cards for achieving certain performance levels. Think a version of Todd's fast drill modified for line personnel.

[lwt16]

Fortunately I am still in an organization that allows me to have a respectable training program and do things like monetary awards for the best accuracy for the training day, as well as the IBI handgun challenge that awards personnel with certificate and up to $200 gift cards for achieving certain performance levels. Think a version of Todd's fast drill modified for line personnel.

Salivating and breathing heavier now.

That would get a grievance filed with a quickness here. "THAT'S NOT FAIR" would rear it's ugly head.

[Wayne Dobbs]

That would get a grievance filed with a quickness here. "THAT'S NOT FAIR" would rear it's ugly head.

The "Fair" is where one goes to eat too much cotton candy and too many hot dogs and to ride the Ferris wheel. "Fair" has absolutely nothing to do with life and those snow flakes should get that down quickly.

[SeriousStudent]

I recall that for many years, the Dallas Sheriff's Office used to hold a monthly combat pistol match, which was run by some of their reserves (translated: wealthy guys who loved to shoot). This was always a multi-stage event that always had some kind of accuracy driven El Presidente variation. It was shot in either major or minor class, auto or revolver. Myself and a couple of Grand Prairie PD officers used to fight out the top three places most months and one time, there was this kid that showed up from Ontario, CA PD with a security holster and schooled some folks. Guess who that was??

We had lots of good times, lots of solid scenario shooting and lots of real gunfighters who had done the deed working on our skills every month.

Dallas PD used to run a PPC 1500 and the duty gun courses every month and it was always well attended by some amazing revolver shooters.

I miss those days and that fellowship and a fun way to do your frequent skills training!

I am sure that is on Chief Hall's "to-do" list, and it will fast-tracked any day now.....

[Lester Polfus]

It wasn't until I quit my agency that I realized how good I had it. We took our gunfighting seriously. Quarterly quals, scenario based live fire, and lots of friendly competition. One of the detectives and I had a dueling tree match that was talked about for months. By the time it ended (he won) we had both pulled out our backup guns.

We didn't shoot people very often but when we did it was over quick.

[Mike C]

On the bright side, while the stats show most can’t hit crap, I bet their smartphone and computer skills are improving.

Sounds like they've been taking notes from the Army.

I recall that for many years, the Dallas Sheriff's Office used to hold a monthly combat pistol match, which was run by some of their reserves...
We had lots of good times, lots of solid scenario shooting and lots of real gunfighters who had done the deed working on our skills every month...
I miss those days and that fellowship and a fun way to do your frequent skills training!

What a great way to build skills, camaraderie and relationships for mutual aid.