Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 63

Thread: Police Training-- Unrealistic Expectations?

  1. #1
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Tampa area, Florida

    Police Training-- Unrealistic Expectations?

    Modern Police Training, Unrealistic Expectations

    The Force Science Institute recently reported on a study conducted by several researchers who used the Dallas Police Department as an example of a modern, big city police department’s firearms training and field performance. The researchers were shocked at how poorly the DPD officers did in actual shootings in the field, a reaction generally shared by members of the public at large when they find out how dismal typical police performance with firearms really is, as opposed to the Hollywood movie/TV version of how cops shoot.

    The mindset of the researchers can be summed up by this quote from their study: “although the amount- and quality- of firearms training received by officers over the last century has improved considerably, there appears to have been little improvement in shooting accuracy”. Implicit in that quote is an assumption that today’s officers get a lot of firearms training, and that the training received effectively prepares them for armed conflict. Wrong!

    First, their findings. From 2003-2017 the Dallas Police Department had 231 Officer Involved Shootings (OIS). A number of these involved multiple officers, so to get a better picture of individual performance, the researchers discarded those and looked only at incidents in which a single officer fired at a single suspect. They found 149 OIS’s that met that criterion.

    They looked at hit rates in two ways, “incident level” and “bullet level”. On an “incident level” basis, they found that officers got at least one hit, regardless of the number of rounds fired, in about 54% of the shootings, just barely over half of the time.

    However, on a “bullet level” basis, they found that out of 354 shots fired, there was only a 35% hit rate. One half of all officers missed with every shot they fired, including one officer who fired 23 misses and no hits. This means that six out of every ten shots fired was a miss. How does this happen?

    Let’s look at this “amount-and quality- of firearms training” in Dallas, which is actually a very representative sample. Officers qualify with their firearms once per year. That’s right, once. The course of fire they “qualify” on is a joke, essentially a sobriety test for anyone with any skill at all with a gun. I, or any other competent private sector trainer, could take a brand new shooter, with no prior training or experience, and have them pass this course of fire at the end of one day of range training. DPD officers receive “firearms training” once every two years, consisting of 50-100 rounds of firing in exercises and scenarios. That’s it.

    Now, let’s take someone who does not know how to drive a car. We’ll give them a few days of driving instruction, but only at very low speed in the empty parking lot, with no traffic. They will then not drive at all for a year. After a year, we’ll have them drive the car from Point A to Point B on the parking lot, again with no traffic. Then, again no more driving once they leave the lot. Some nine months after that, they will be directed to respond to a life threatening crisis by jumping in a car and roaring off at 120 miles per hour on an expressway filled with traffic. Think they would do well? That’s exactly what DPD does with their officers when it comes to firearms.

    The bottom line is, most police departments don’t care if their officers can shoot well. They don’t care about the officers’ welfare nor about the public’s safety. “Qualification” once per year has been consistently held to be inadequate by U.S. courts, yet it is still the standard in many areas. “Training” every two years is criminally negligent, but that’s “good enough” for these agencies.

    Learn from this example. Whether you are a law enforcement officer, or Joe Citizen with a carry permit, the agency you work for or who issued your license is NOT responsible for your life. You are! Seek out competent training. Make time for relevant practice. Handle your emergency life saving equipment often enough to obtain and maintain proficiency with it. Remember that recency trumps almost everything in retention of motor skills, so get to the range more than once a year. One day you may be very glad you “exceeded the mandated standard”.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter JohnO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    CT (behind Enemy lines)
    This sobering description of the training level of the DPD is not uncommon among most police departments. Perhaps this is why I cringe when I hear certain people say only professionals like police officers should be allowed to have guns in public.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Hickory NC
    As a reserve deputy in a department in SC for 7 years I was SHOCKED by the lack of pistol training. Like DPD qualifying once a year, that's it. Sadly there was always a few officers that had to do the Q course 2-3 times and I remember one had to come back on another day for the 4th attempt. Sad really.......

  4. #4
    Member olstyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Minnesota
    Given the many past threads on this forum about how cops' shooting skills could benefit from getting into USPSA and/or IDPA shooting, is it insane to suggest that departments should cover match fees and provide ammo in order to incentivize cops to compete? Further, if there isn't a local match already, why don't departments start one? They might even make a profit, and that money could be put into more training and/or a higher ammo budget for training/match use.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Midwest
    We used to maintain a pretty high (by comparison to many other agencies and state requirements) standard until a couple Deputy Chiefs failed to qualify.

    The course was then determined to not be realistic and a significantly easier one implemented.
    Last edited by PD Sgt.; 12-07-2018 at 07:20 AM.
    Polite Professional

  6. #6
    On the bright side, while the stats show most can’t hit crap, I bet their smartphone and computer skills are improving.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  7. #7
    From what I've personally seen:

    Most cops hate shooting, consider it a huge imposition to go shooting even while on the clock, most are way too arrogant to ask for help or admit that they are weak in shooting skills, admin hates cops shooting as it costs money and pulls cops off the streets, qualifications are routinely fudged to pass the sick/lame/lazy shooters, etc.

    Departments that used to have shooting teams, shooting trophies, plaques for those that qualified 100 percent, uniform insignia......all that is unofficially considered to be relics from a dinosaur age/mentality.

    We apparently issue "feelings" now as I have seen cops told that misses on a FBI Q target "would have still hit the guy" as the Q scoring zone is smaller than a person's torso. That's right........sort of "it's good that you missed"......or "that's okay, you are great at this anyway" re-enforcement of a skill set that sucks so hard it's comical.

    It aggravates me to see that.

    Lately, we have been shortening quals and watering them down even more due to time constraints....even though policy and safety is being shattered on a routine basis. But I digress......

    I'm known as the "gun guy" and I think I am the only one here out of 400 sworn that will show up to a practice session and ask if I can start at the 50. I have, in the past, ran my second attempt at quals by taking only head shots for the entire course starting at 25 yards just to get in a practice session of "aiming small". I also get the "this gun shoots left" stuff and I'll take someone else's gun and clean the plate rack with it at 25. I'll also demand my shotgun slug qual as there are very few here that will attempt this section since it's all at the 50 yard line and slugs are ouchies with recoil.

    As an agency, we do pretty good in real shootings.....although I am not sure what our hit percentage is. Proof that God looks over us because I have seen Q targets from these guys and gals over the years get worse and worse. We do have some solid shooters but as a group, if we were to show up at a shooting meet.......collectively we would get our clocks cleaned.

    Maybe it's a case of "ya don't know what ya don't know" when it comes to this stuff.......and part of me hopes it's ignorance instead of penny pinching incompetence. I do think that shooting and being into guns, as an agency.....is seemingly frowned upon for the negative PR connotations....or at least it seems to be from my perspective.

    De-escalation "feels" much better and is probably cheaper to train for. Feelings matter.

    Until an errant shot hits the innocent....then the bill you have been avoiding suddenly shows up......and your past training dictates how much of that bill you can negotiate down. Whole lot of agencies have...and will....find that out the hard way.

    Opinion only.......worth about what you paid for it.

    Regards.

  8. #8
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Allen, TX
    Won't rehash what's already been said here, because it's right on track. When I get the chance to show folks an LE range that Darryl and I have access to for our training, I always show them the low railroad tie wall in front of the target turners. It's FULL of low misses (hundreds) fired during low to no stress quals and training. Then I show them the strikes on the T-wall over the berm, which has less errant hits, but still dozens. Then I tell them if they're ever anyplace the cops show up with guns out to run as fast as they can from the scene. Pitiful...
    Regional Government Sales Manager for Aimpoint, Inc. USA
    Co-owner Hardwired Tactical Shooting (HiTS)

  9. #9
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    Won't rehash what's already been said here, because it's right on track. When I get the chance to show folks an LE range that Darryl and I have access to for our training, I always show them the low railroad tie wall in front of the target turners. It's FULL of low misses (hundreds) fired during low to no stress quals and training. Then I show them the strikes on the T-wall over the berm, which has less errant hits, but still dozens. Then I tell them if they're ever anyplace the cops show up with guns out to run as fast as they can from the scene. Pitiful...
    The position markers at our county PD range have plenty of holes to prove this point.

  10. #10
    A guy here, lawyer for the police union and the largest gun store/range hereabouts, was dismayed at the shooting skills of the typical policeman.
    He started offering monthly "invitational practice" after hours at that range. I don't know why he invited non-LEO me except that I was helpful to him in his own early interest in shooting.

    Format started out as IDPA but has been tweaked to better suit department equipment and policy. Frex, one second per point down was scored there before IDPA did, and hits on "nonthreats" are quadruple the IDPA values. Magazine load is not limited to 10 but you still must reload sometime on a scenario. The range is hot; at the conclusion of a stage, scan your surroundings as best you can without breaking the 180, reload for the next stage, and holster. Challenges are frequently required.

    Attendance is unfortunately small, even on a good night, but does draw from several towns and cities, two counties, and a federal agency.
    These are not just enthusiasts out for practice and "trigger time", there have been some substantial improvements by "annual qualifiers" who are willing to attend on their own time and their own dime.


    The fellow who assists by setting up and running stages has instituted voluntary practice sessions at the department range nearest him. Not in competition format and not practice toward qualification, not claimed to be training, it appears to be what I call "structured practice." He invited me and another CCW to participate and I will check it out.


    It may be a drop in the bucket of the training and practice needed, but to quote John Ringo's Wolf Squadron: "Don't curse the darkness, light a candle."
    Code Name: JET STREAM

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •