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Thread: Farewell to Glock?

  1. #1
    S.L.O.W. ASH556's Avatar
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    Farewell to Glock?

    I posted this in my training journal, but honestly would like some input from the group at-large here. This sort of ties in with my other thread on "Moving away from a full-size carry gun." For now and the forseeable future, the 642 + sight paint + LG405 (lasergrips) is my EDC 5 days a week due to work dress code + NPE. That, along with the sort of "performance plateau" I've reached with the Glock has me considering a whole-hog changeover.

    Crosspost from journal:

    Quote Originally Posted by ASH556
    I forgot my belt/holster when I left the house this morning so I looked up DOTW's I could do from a ready position and selected the FBI Bullseye Course. I shot a 277/300, which ironically is the exact same score as the last time I shot it (April of 2017). Not terrible, but definitely room for improvement. I definitely rushed the first string with the 10 sec par time. Elsewise decent time management.



    There's that damn high left trend again.

    Next, I decided to try and clean up my 25yd stuff. I shot a few points better, but an overall worse group:



    I spent the last 10 rounds on another 25yd B8 and It was so bad I didn't even take a pic. There were four 7's.

    My sight picture and alignment looked really good today. Nice sharp front sight. Thus, I can only attribute this stuff to either trigger or grip. Trigger control seems good, especially based on the J-frame stuff last week. That leaves me honestly and seriously considering dumping the Glock. I've given it a solid 4-1/2 years with the same G17. I've learned a ton and grown a ton with it, but now I wonder how much it's really worth continuing to beat my head against the wall of ergonomics. I have decent sized hands, but shorter fingers. I think this affects my interface with the Glock. Numerous times in my 4-1/2 years of "serious" pistol shooting I've picked up a different gun, one I've never shot before and instantly delivered the same or better performance as what I can do with my thousands-of-rounds Glock. There are downsides to consider. The Glock is so ubiquitous that mags, parts, holsters, etc are cheap, easy to find, and I already have a bunch of it. At the same time, I'd like to improve my performance and when I can pick up a 1911 I've never seen before and shoot a 98/100 on a 25yd B8, and then work my ass off to keep my Glock at a 95, that tells me something. Of course, 25yd shooting isn't everything and a Glock is probably faster and easier to reload than a 1911, but there are multiple other good choices. We'll see what the future holds.
    So here's the real question: What do I go to as a full-size gun for weekends, training, etc? I'd like to stick with 9mm I think for lots of reasons. Beretta 92? Sig P228? Sig 320? M&P 2.0? I know there are a million choices. I'm not currently shooting any matches and don't see myself having time to do so for several years, so I don't think I'd consider something like a CZ.

    I like how I currently have 2 identical Glocks, but with the 642 being my primary, maybe what I really need to do is buy a 2nd 642 and only have one full-size gun.

    I'm wide open guys, all input is appreciated.
    Food Court Apprentice
    Semper Paratus certified AR15 armorer

  2. #2
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    I'm biased, but TDA ftw if you're carrying a J Frame.
    Used to make pasta, now I make waffles.

  3. #3
    THE THIRST MUTILATOR Nephrology's Avatar
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    I'd keep the guns you already know work well and think about buying a 2nd J frame over time. No rush. Unloading to dry fire is much less of an issue than with semis.

    edit: If you're gonna carry a J frame full time, I'd look into a K, L or N frame(s) in .38/.357 for regular practice. The revolver trigger pull can't really be replicated by anything except a revolver. Could always get a 9mm like the S&W 929 but they aren't cheap.
    Last edited by Nephrology; 12-05-2018 at 02:16 PM.

  4. #4
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    Not an expert, but I'd note that shooting 277 on the FBI bullseye qual is nothing to scoff at.

    Also, I've found that particular qual is sensitive to very small changes in POI. If your group was an inch to the right, your score may have been significantly higher. When i see that on my targets, I start to ask if my sights need adjustment, or was the ambient lighting pushing my POI sideways?

    I haven't read your training journal so I'm not familiar with the details of your pistol and ammo, but you might be able to wring a little more out of the Glock if you used a match barrel and/or tweaked your ammo.

    Or, if you just want to try something new, the LTT 92 seems to be the hot ticket right now. And it certainly is attractive; a solid platform with a ton of great support from BUSA, LTT, etc.
    Last edited by Mark D; 12-05-2018 at 02:24 PM.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    I'm guessing that this thread will generate a lot of opinions, just like that other epic thread you started.

    All this stuff is specific case-by-case, under the guidelines of generally accepted principle. All I can say for sure is what my own thought process on this has been. For me, due to a variety of reasons having to do with lifestyle/discretion needs, physical issues, and experience with a wide variety of handgun designs over time, I've moved away from Glocks and have settled on (a bunch of) snubs, a number of bigger wheelies for specific activities (outdoor/recreational) and 1911s for my hand gunning needs. I have my reasons. Essentially, I've split around the Glocks, and no longer find myself using them for what I do with handguns. I freely admit that a Gl17 or 19 is a better counter-ambush/assaultive weapon than any of my choices, for those more likely to need to break an ambush or press the fight (eg. LE). But for my needs, I like other designs.

    Sounds like you need a back up to your primary (what about a 640 set up with the paint/CTLG to use for more practice?) and would like to try another platform. TDA makes sense in that regard.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  6. #6
    Site Supporter jwperry's Avatar
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    If you're looking to maintain similar investment value, M&P or P320 might be your ticket. Although I'm not sure that they'll offer you greater mechanical accuracy over your current G17s.

    If you're looking for something "fun" and not overly concerned about the value the semi-custom B92 series are hard to beat, if they fit you. My personal preference are classic TDA Sigs.

  7. #7
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    I'd dump it. That's what I'm doing. There are too many choices not to have exactly what you want.

    Reliable? Safe? Soft shooting? High capacity? Ergonomic? Easy to carry? Accurate at distance? It's not an either/or in this day and age.

    I've become a street preacher for the M&P. The 2.0 is serviceable and inexpensive in stock form can be bought with a thumb safety (I also love 1911s and have more of them than any type of handgun). I took a .40 and purchased a gunsmith fit conversion barrel that puts the accuracy I can get with a M&P at a level that I usually can only get with a revolver or a 1911. I can shoot it as well as my Glock on short distance drills and far better on long distance. If we're talking straight up accuracy, I even shoot it better than my 5" Kimber Stainless in 9mm. (Though the favtory grade all steel 9mm is faster to shoot and with a better barrel would be far superior.)

    Unpopular opinion, but the M&Ps accuracy woes might have been the best thing to ever happen to the platform. Rather than producing a mediocre 4" group at 25, the M&Ps produced a terrible 6-8" spread. The gun was reliable and ergonomic enough otherwise so the aftermarket came to the rescue.

    And boy did it. Some companies produced frame by frame videos, researching why it was the gun wasn't accurate and then poduced an aftermarket solution that for me, has made it one of the most accurate plastic guns out there. I suspect a Bullseye shooter could get better accuracy out of my M&P and some ransom tests of other guns have produced groups that have been nothing short of phenomenal.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

  8. #8
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    Cross-posted from my response to your journal:

    It seems to me that if you want to shoot 25 and 50 yard bullseye, you need a certain kind of gun set up a certain kind of way. OTOH, if you want to shoot a different game, then you probably need a different gun set up differently, and if you want to do "combat shooting", then you probably want to be able to make 25 yard hits, but focus most of your training time, and choice in weapon, on things that make it a better weapon than paper driller at x distance/game.

    Or I could be wrong. But it seems that way to me.
    Further thoughts:

    What is your primary shooting goal? Secondary, others? If you can refine those, then "let the mission drive the gear train", as it were.

    The other thought I have is that Lawrence Fishburn meme: What if I told you it doesn't matter what gun you use?

  9. #9
    S.L.O.W. ASH556's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duelist View Post
    Cross-posted from my response to your journal:



    Further thoughts:

    What is your primary shooting goal? Secondary, others? If you can refine those, then "let the mission drive the gear train", as it were.

    The other thought I have is that Lawrence Fishburn meme: What if I told you it doesn't matter what gun you use?
    Yeah, that’s good perspective and I get the “it doesn’t matter what pistol” thing. Then again, I live in the real world where I have time and budget constraints. Some things just come up hard against that law of diminishing returns.
    Food Court Apprentice
    Semper Paratus certified AR15 armorer

  10. #10
    S.L.O.W. ASH556's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post
    I'd dump it. That's what I'm doing. There are too many choices not to have exactly what you want.

    Reliable? Safe? Soft shooting? High capacity? Ergonomic? Easy to carry? Accurate at distance? It's not an either/or in this day and age.

    I've become a street preacher for the M&P. The 2.0 is serviceable and inexpensive in stock form can be bought with a thumb safety (I also love 1911s and have more of them than any type of handgun). I took a .40 and purchased a gunsmith fit conversion barrel that puts the accuracy I can get with a M&P at a level that I usually can only get with a revolver or a 1911. I can shoot it as well as my Glock on short distance drills and far better on long distance. If we're talking straight up accuracy, I even shoot it better than my 5" Kimber Stainless in 9mm. (Though the favtory grade all steel 9mm is faster to shoot and with a better barrel would be far superior.)

    Unpopular opinion, but the M&Ps accuracy woes might have been the best thing to ever happen to the platform. Rather than producing a mediocre 4" group at 25, the M&Ps produced a terrible 6-8" spread. The gun was reliable and ergonomic enough otherwise so the aftermarket came to the rescue.

    And boy did it. Some companies produced frame by frame videos, researching why it was the gun wasn't accurate and then poduced an aftermarket solution that for me, has made it one of the most accurate plastic guns out there. I suspect a Bullseye shooter could get better accuracy out of my M&P and some ransom tests of other guns have produced groups that have been nothing short of phenomenal.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    Funny you mention the M&P since one of those 8” patterning M&P’s is what brought me to Pistol-Forum back in 2012. I’m a bit gun shy, but recent posts seem to indicate they may be fixed.
    Food Court Apprentice
    Semper Paratus certified AR15 armorer

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