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Thread: In the United States, we have a severe under-incarceration problem

  1. #51
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Because why not:

    https://wtop.com/maryland/2018/03/md...FIYyXSYxvz0Ra4

    Wherein a politician...a democrat...notices that violent crimes in Baltimore are committed mostly by people who have already committed violent crimes and proposes to fix this by keeping people who commit multiple violent crimes in a cage longer gets blamed for being a racist.

    Salient quotes from the piece:

    "Zirkin said the bill was an attempt to act in response to the 343 murders in Baltimore City. Expressing frustration, Zirkin said, “Somehow, if we vote for a bill that puts — just to be clear — repeat violent offenders in prison, people who have hurt people multiple times, somehow that’s bigoted.”

    "Progressive Maryland Executive Director Larry Stafford said, in part, in an emailed statement to WTOP: “Progressive Maryland is opposed to policies that bring us back to the failed era of mass incarceration. The sentence enhancements and mandatory minimums in this legislation are a return to an era in which communities of color have suffered.”
    3/15/2016

  2. #52
    Site Supporter Peally's Avatar
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    "As a descendant of the fine people of Poland, who have been invaded in major fashion about 12+ times throughout history, I am in opposition to any trade agreements with Mongolia, as I would see it as a return to the years of their great genocides against the planet which have never been matched since."





    That's 5% of the world population those animals killed off, compared to other historical travesties of humanity it's one of the cream of the crop.

    It only sounds stupid if certain people say things like this apparently. Others it's a fully legitimate claim for some reason because racism. It's a shame politics involves being a sleaze bag on some level by its nature, we might have a lot of smart cookies in office if it wasn't the case.
    Last edited by Peally; 02-13-2019 at 01:25 PM.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

  3. #53
    careful what you wish for blues's Avatar
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    If only we could go back (or forward) to the concept of justice being blind and punish the offender according to the severity of the crime without regard to race, ethnicity or social / cultural antecedents. One set of rules for everyone. This politically correct multicultural horse manure is beyond broken.
    “Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” - Sun Tzu | "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson

  4. #54
    Irritates Rage Monkeys RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Private citizens.

    ...or to be situated so they have the exclusive pleasure of interacting with the criminals they insist must be loosed on society.
    Those folks are too dumb to worry about.

    ___

    As you are aware, I'm a pretty hardcore libertarian (little L), but I sometimes feel that if people are too stupid to know when and where their rights apply and don't apply, then they I'm not sure they deserve them.

    _____

    Reminds me of the time I got into an argument with a "historian" acquaintance of mine about 'extrajudicial murder of black men'. This was during the Zimmerman-Martin fiasco.

    And the historian says, "Just another example of extrajudicial murder."

    To which I responded, "That doesn't make sense. George Zimmerman wasn't/isn't an agent of the state. Therefore it cannot be extrajudicial. He was not required to carry out any particular due process or judicial proceedings."

    "You know what I mean."

    "No, I don't. But I think it's because you don't know what you mean..."

    "Well, let's talk about something else..."

    "Okay. When is your birthday?"

    "What? Why?"

    "Because I've realized I need to buy you a dictionary for your birthday..."

    Suffice to say, said individual and I are not acquainted any longer.
    Last edited by RevolverRob; 02-13-2019 at 01:29 PM.
    "P-f: I lurked for wonderful combat pistolcraft advice, but I ponied up cash for my daily dose of Dada." - Baldanders

  5. #55
    Irritates Rage Monkeys RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Double-tap
    Last edited by RevolverRob; 02-13-2019 at 01:29 PM.
    "P-f: I lurked for wonderful combat pistolcraft advice, but I ponied up cash for my daily dose of Dada." - Baldanders

  6. #56
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    A little more information on this topic because it's something that really grinds my gears.

    It is a common argument that prisons are over-populated because of people locked up on drug charges. What does actual prison data say?

    Well, let's look at Virginia:

    https://vadoc.virginia.gov/about/fac...is-summary.pdf

    A little over 14% of Virginia's prisoners are there because of drugs. A little more than 4% for possession, 10.3% because of sales.

    57% of Virginia's inmate population is there because of violent offenses ranging from capital murder to sex crimes.

    What about a state with a worse crime problem? Try Illinois:

    https://www2.illinois.gov/idoc/repor...rt%20FINAL.pdf

    In FY2017 they reported a prison population of just over 43,000 people.

    About 17 percent of them are locked up for "controlled substance violations" which doesn't break down as nicely as in Virginia because Illinois law is a bit different, but it's fair to say that the majority of those are dealers, too.

    Meanwhile in Virginia there are areas where the homicide clearance rate is dismal:

    https://www.dailypress.com/news/newp...018-story.html

    ...which means that there are literally murderers out there breathing free air. As a whole, Virginia does better than the national averages in clearing violent crimes...but a sizeable chunk of them are still unsolved.

    Illinois, of course, houses Chicago. Where they had a homicide clearance rate of 12% in 2017. The clearance rates for other violent crimes like rape, aggravated assault, and armed robbery were no prettier.

    In fact, if you take a hard look at violent crime in the places where it is worst, you find the same trend. Police departments that can't even get clearances on half of homicides, much less other violent crimes. This means when somebody does get locked up for a violent crime it is highly likely they have committed others without getting locked up for it.

    Under Mike Dewine, Ohio performed a study that found most violent crime in Ohio was perpetrated by a small number of repeat offenders who kept getting let out to do it over and over and over again. Even the UK found a similar phenomenon happening...almost like the nature of criminals isn't altered by borders or oceans.

    So we do not, in fact, have "mass incarceration" going on. And we are not letting people who have forcibly raped children out of jail so we can lock up somebody caught with a dime bag.

    The simple truth is that in the United States we do not have the resources or the jail space necessary to lock up all the repeat violent offenders. We are, in fact, so bad at catching violent offenders and locking them up that going to prison is a relatively unlikely outcome of committing a violent crime. And if they do go to prison for a violent crime, they are highly likely to be out in a couple of years anyway as the BJS study I opened this thread documents.

    That, ladies and gentlemen, is under-incarceration.
    3/15/2016

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