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Thread: In the United States, we have a severe under-incarceration problem

  1. #11
    Site Supporter Drang's Avatar
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    Jan 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by John Hearne View Post
    I'd recommend "Ghettoside" to better understand the real criminal justice system.
    Is that a book?
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  2. #12
    careful what you wish for blues's Avatar
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    blue ridge mtns
    Quote Originally Posted by Drang View Post
    Is that a book?
    “Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” - Sun Tzu | "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson

  3. #13
    When actions have little true consequences, people do stupid shit. OD as many times as you like cause some poor schmuck will have to shoot you up with narcan and save your ass. Hmmm why stop doing stupid shit? Rape someone bad you can safely roll the dice and get off easy; why stop doing stupid shit.

    We don’t have an under incarnation problem or an over incarceration of wrong crimes problem. We have a problem of being too efficient at protecting stupid folks from the co sequences of their stupid acts. Be that narcan or self defense laws that make defense a legal nightmare for the victim or selling the tale of government will keep you safe... pick your poison.

  4. #14
    A predictable problem. Locking up bad people and throwing away the key is politically unacceptable. Include localized corruption between higher level offenders and city governments, and here we are.
    The Minority Marksman.
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  5. #15
    Member Trooper224's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
    S. Central Kansas
    Quote Originally Posted by Peally View Post
    Banning narcan would be a wonderful first step. No consequences enables stupid behaviour.
    Narcan runs contrary to the process of natural selection.
    Put your Big Boy pants on.

  6. #16
    It'll of course vary from state to state, but here the big legislative trend is against incarceration. "Smart on crime" is the buzzword.

    To start, our felonies are graded E-A, with C and below being presumed to be eligible for probation. Each class of felony has a term of years it's punishable by: for E it's 1-6, for C it's 3-15, etc. etc. etc. The idea is sound: the more severe the crime, the worse the potential exposure.

    But, as part of our getting smart on crime, we also consider an offender's criminal history in their sentencing, using ranges. Again, this is a pretty sound idea -- more felonious people ought to get more time. We range them I-IV, and prior felonies range you up in general. However, there's a caveat: the ranging felony must, in general, be the same classification as the convicting offense, a higher classification, or within two classifications lower. So, a guy convicted of a B felony with five convictions for E felonies but no Ds, Cs, Bs, or As will still be a Range I and only be looking at eight to twelve years.

    But wait: there's more. Each range also has a release eligibility date -- how much of a sentence must be served before being paroled. For a Range I, it's 30%; Range II is 35%; Range III is 45%; and Range IV is 60%. The parole people like to ensure they have room for the really bad people, so many people get paroled at their RED date, and if they don't, they'll get another hearing in a year or so where they'll likely get it. It's like stacking coupon codes on an online sale: take an additional 50% off on top of the 30% discount we're already giving you.

    In English, what this means is this: Friday I sent somebody to prison for eight years. He'll actually be out in around 2.8-3.5 years, because even though he's a range II offender with a few prior felonies, he's a "nonviolent" offender (and thus prioritized for getting out of prison) and his release eligibility date is 35% of that eight years.

    Over these next few legislative sessions, we expect our legislature to get even smarter on crime. But hey -- at least there's room in prison for the Really Bad People...

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post

    Only 5 at once?

  8. #18
    Member John Hearne's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Northern Mississippi
    One of my guys responded to a call this morning where the "victim" was convicted of murder in 2014. Not manslaughter, but murder. He was out roaming the streets after about four years. I don't think people realize this is how the system actually works.
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  9. #19
    careful what you wish for blues's Avatar
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    blue ridge mtns
    Quote Originally Posted by 11B10 View Post
    Only 5 at once?
    Austerity budget.
    “Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” - Sun Tzu | "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson

  10. #20
    Paws Before Boots Coyotesfan97's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Phoenix Metro, AZ
    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post

    The argument isn't that rapists and murderers are being released to make room for people busted with dime bags. It's that we're arresting and incarcerating more people with dime bags than we are violent offenders.

    Maybe if we reallocated some resources from drugs and instead focused on violent crimes things could change?
    I filed Patrol drug cases for close to two years which means I filed Possession of Marijuana charges probably 1500 times. I got a lot of property dispositions after those cases were adjudicated. The overwhelming majority of them got a $750 fine, a year of unsupervised probation, and a mandatory drug class. Just to be clear we’re talking about dime bag possession.

    I don’t remember anyone getting DOC time off a straight possession charge. I have had people tell me they went to DOC for a POM charge. My first question is always what were you originally charged with? 99% of the time they got a sweet plea deal and got multiple sale charges dropped to possession or you have a repeat offender with multiple DOC stints who got caught holding.

    You have to work at getting Prison time for dope in Arizona. I’m talking about Dangerous or Narcotic drugs here not weed. Usually you’re a three time dope loser who got caught again or you’re a burglar with felony convictions so you get some DOC time based on your record.
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