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Thread: In the United States, we have a severe under-incarceration problem

  1. #51
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Because why not:

    https://wtop.com/maryland/2018/03/md...FIYyXSYxvz0Ra4

    Wherein a politician...a democrat...notices that violent crimes in Baltimore are committed mostly by people who have already committed violent crimes and proposes to fix this by keeping people who commit multiple violent crimes in a cage longer gets blamed for being a racist.

    Salient quotes from the piece:

    "Zirkin said the bill was an attempt to act in response to the 343 murders in Baltimore City. Expressing frustration, Zirkin said, “Somehow, if we vote for a bill that puts — just to be clear — repeat violent offenders in prison, people who have hurt people multiple times, somehow that’s bigoted.”

    "Progressive Maryland Executive Director Larry Stafford said, in part, in an emailed statement to WTOP: “Progressive Maryland is opposed to policies that bring us back to the failed era of mass incarceration. The sentence enhancements and mandatory minimums in this legislation are a return to an era in which communities of color have suffered.”
    3/15/2016

  2. #52
    Member Peally's Avatar
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    "As a descendant of the fine people of Poland, who have been invaded in major fashion about 12+ times throughout history, I am in opposition to any trade agreements with Mongolia, as I would see it as a return to the years of their great genocides against the planet which have never been matched since."





    That's 5% of the world population those animals killed off, compared to other historical travesties of humanity it's one of the cream of the crop.

    It only sounds stupid if certain people say things like this apparently. Others it's a fully legitimate claim for some reason because racism. It's a shame politics involves being a sleaze bag on some level by its nature, we might have a lot of smart cookies in office if it wasn't the case.
    Last edited by Peally; 02-13-2019 at 02:25 PM.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

  3. #53
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    If only we could go back (or forward) to the concept of justice being blind and punish the offender according to the severity of the crime without regard to race, ethnicity or social / cultural antecedents. One set of rules for everyone. This politically correct multicultural horse manure is beyond broken.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  4. #54
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Private citizens.

    ...or to be situated so they have the exclusive pleasure of interacting with the criminals they insist must be loosed on society.
    Those folks are too dumb to worry about.

    ___

    As you are aware, I'm a pretty hardcore libertarian (little L), but I sometimes feel that if people are too stupid to know when and where their rights apply and don't apply, then they I'm not sure they deserve them.

    _____

    Reminds me of the time I got into an argument with a "historian" acquaintance of mine about 'extrajudicial murder of black men'. This was during the Zimmerman-Martin fiasco.

    And the historian says, "Just another example of extrajudicial murder."

    To which I responded, "That doesn't make sense. George Zimmerman wasn't/isn't an agent of the state. Therefore it cannot be extrajudicial. He was not required to carry out any particular due process or judicial proceedings."

    "You know what I mean."

    "No, I don't. But I think it's because you don't know what you mean..."

    "Well, let's talk about something else..."

    "Okay. When is your birthday?"

    "What? Why?"

    "Because I've realized I need to buy you a dictionary for your birthday..."

    Suffice to say, said individual and I are not acquainted any longer.
    Last edited by RevolverRob; 02-13-2019 at 02:29 PM.

  5. #55
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Double-tap
    Last edited by RevolverRob; 02-13-2019 at 02:29 PM.

  6. #56
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    A little more information on this topic because it's something that really grinds my gears.

    It is a common argument that prisons are over-populated because of people locked up on drug charges. What does actual prison data say?

    Well, let's look at Virginia:

    https://vadoc.virginia.gov/about/fac...is-summary.pdf

    A little over 14% of Virginia's prisoners are there because of drugs. A little more than 4% for possession, 10.3% because of sales.

    57% of Virginia's inmate population is there because of violent offenses ranging from capital murder to sex crimes.

    What about a state with a worse crime problem? Try Illinois:

    https://www2.illinois.gov/idoc/repor...rt%20FINAL.pdf

    In FY2017 they reported a prison population of just over 43,000 people.

    About 17 percent of them are locked up for "controlled substance violations" which doesn't break down as nicely as in Virginia because Illinois law is a bit different, but it's fair to say that the majority of those are dealers, too.

    Meanwhile in Virginia there are areas where the homicide clearance rate is dismal:

    https://www.dailypress.com/news/newp...018-story.html

    ...which means that there are literally murderers out there breathing free air. As a whole, Virginia does better than the national averages in clearing violent crimes...but a sizeable chunk of them are still unsolved.

    Illinois, of course, houses Chicago. Where they had a homicide clearance rate of 12% in 2017. The clearance rates for other violent crimes like rape, aggravated assault, and armed robbery were no prettier.

    In fact, if you take a hard look at violent crime in the places where it is worst, you find the same trend. Police departments that can't even get clearances on half of homicides, much less other violent crimes. This means when somebody does get locked up for a violent crime it is highly likely they have committed others without getting locked up for it.

    Under Mike Dewine, Ohio performed a study that found most violent crime in Ohio was perpetrated by a small number of repeat offenders who kept getting let out to do it over and over and over again. Even the UK found a similar phenomenon happening...almost like the nature of criminals isn't altered by borders or oceans.

    So we do not, in fact, have "mass incarceration" going on. And we are not letting people who have forcibly raped children out of jail so we can lock up somebody caught with a dime bag.

    The simple truth is that in the United States we do not have the resources or the jail space necessary to lock up all the repeat violent offenders. We are, in fact, so bad at catching violent offenders and locking them up that going to prison is a relatively unlikely outcome of committing a violent crime. And if they do go to prison for a violent crime, they are highly likely to be out in a couple of years anyway as the BJS study I opened this thread documents.

    That, ladies and gentlemen, is under-incarceration.
    3/15/2016

  7. #57
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    Here’s a local example of a guy the U.S. Marshalls caught last night on a kidnapping warrant involving a young woman who has been missing for two weeks.

    https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2...pensacola.html

    From the article:

    “Yazeed has a lengthy criminal history. The attempted murder and kidnapping incident in which Yazeed is a defendant happened in January 2019. According to court records, two male victims – one of them 77-years-old - were held against their will in a hotel room in January 2019 on the 1200 block of Eastern Boulevard.

    The older man was beaten until “unconscious, unresponsive, severely injured and near death” and robbed of a Rolex, rifle, handguns, wallet, bank card, clothing and unknown amount of currency. The other man was also beaten and robbed of at least $40.

    In July 2017, Yazeed was arrested by Cass County sheriff’s deputies in Missouri on an arrest warrant for aggravated battery on a law enforcement officer.

    Yazeed also previously pleaded guilty to felony drug possession in 2015 and received a 13-month suspended sentence. In 2012, he was charged with attempted murder after authorities said he rammed his car into a Montgomery police vehicle. A grand jury declined to indict him on those charges as well.


    The previous year – 2011 - Yazeed was charged with two counts of robbery after a man was robbed of more than $2,000, a cell phone and a Gucci watch. A grand jury also declined to indict him on those charges.”

    The Marshalls fugitive task force deserves a tip of the hat on this one too. I had a DEA buddy who worked with the regional fugitive task force about ten years ago and he told me it was the most rewarding and enjoyable job he’d had in LE.
    Last edited by Caballoflaco; 11-08-2019 at 02:05 PM.

  8. #58
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caballoflaco View Post
    The Marshalls fugitive task force deserves a tip of the hat on this one too. I had a DEA buddy who worked with the regional fugitive task force about ten years ago and he told me it was the most rewarding and enjoyable job he’d had in LE.
    I would agree with him. Nothing beats tracking down bad guys and bringing them in. (The post-arrest interrogation interview is also very rewarding when skillfully managed.)
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  9. #59
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    Old thread, but this article reminded me of it:

    https://www.city-journal.org/mass-in...ation-hysteria

    But mass incarceration is an ill-defined notion that ignores what we have learned about the essential role of government in controlling crime. Incarceration, appropriately applied, represents effective public policy, worthy of investment. Compelling data show that prison incarceration in the United States is lower than should be expected. While some states and public officials tout a hard line against crime, the reality is that many serious, recidivistic criminal offenders rarely see the inside of a prison cell. When they do, most get released after serving time well short of their actual sentence. Incarceration is the proverbial revolving door. Nevertheless, the mass incarceration narrative remains potent and retains bipartisan support—but its historical and empirical foundation is weak.

    The article has quite a bit of historical information, such as:

    This brief summary vitiates the historical arguments of today’s reformists. If mass incarceration ever existed, it was between 1930 and 1960. As crime worsened, governments were slow to react, getting a handle on the problem only well after the crime wave had begun. By then, however, the reformers who gave us institutions of confinement had turned against them, leaving millions of seriously mentally ill people to their own devices and then waging campaigns to reduce incarceration.

  10. #60
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idahojess View Post
    Old thread, but this article reminded me of it:

    https://www.city-journal.org/mass-in...ation-hysteria

    But mass incarceration is an ill-defined notion that ignores what we have learned about the essential role of government in controlling crime. Incarceration, appropriately applied, represents effective public policy, worthy of investment. Compelling data show that prison incarceration in the United States is lower than should be expected. While some states and public officials tout a hard line against crime, the reality is that many serious, recidivistic criminal offenders rarely see the inside of a prison cell. When they do, most get released after serving time well short of their actual sentence. Incarceration is the proverbial revolving door. Nevertheless, the mass incarceration narrative remains potent and retains bipartisan support—but its historical and empirical foundation is weak.

    The article has quite a bit of historical information, such as:

    This brief summary vitiates the historical arguments of today’s reformists. If mass incarceration ever existed, it was between 1930 and 1960. As crime worsened, governments were slow to react, getting a handle on the problem only well after the crime wave had begun. By then, however, the reformers who gave us institutions of confinement had turned against them, leaving millions of seriously mentally ill people to their own devices and then waging campaigns to reduce incarceration.
    Great article. Thanks for posting.
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