Rooftop Solar?

[mtnbkr]

I spoke with a sales rep for Ion Solar the other day and I'm kind of interested in the proposal. Because of the strong sun load we get on the front of our house, a panel installation will theoretically generate 60% of my energy needs based on my last 2 years of consumption records. That installation will cost me about $120/month and the remaining 40% of my energy needs will run about $50, so my current cost would go up a bit, but if prices rise as projected by some very large expenses Dominion Power has recently incurred, the increase would only apply to the 40% not covered by my solar production.

Based on the current consumption and projected generating capability, we'll break even on power generation in the early Spring (but not enough to build up energy credits for later in the year), but need to draw additional power from the grid the rest of the year.

That said, tax credits will reduce the cost further (26% tax rebate) and SRECs will further whittle down the monthly recurring cost. Then there's the benefit of effectively blocking a considerable portion of the solar load on that portion of the house (which currently makes the front two rooms on the top floor pretty warm in the summer and even during other parts of the year).

There are also some benefits of doing this now rather than later such as being able to tie into the local grid for free and getting maximum credits for the excess power we generate. Apparently those diminish as Virginia reaches its goals.

At the current status quo, it doesn't make sense financially even if everything performs ideally, but the gap will lessen if the prices rise as projected. The cost of the solar installation is fixed, only the gap between consumption and generation would fluctuate. We expect to be in this house for about 5 years, maybe a little longer, but we're not retiring here. The salesperson claimed a solar installation raises the value of the house and the financial benefits convey, so we wouldn't be stuck with the cost post-sale. What I've read suggests a solar installation does boost sales.

Do any of you have experience with solar energy as consumers? What has the reality been post-installation?

Chris

[BN]

Read my post in the Generac thread. Make sure that you are dealing with a reputable company.

[BN]

I wanted to add that some of the finance companies are pretty mercenary. Whatever you do, do not add the loan for the solar onto your home loan.

[Spartan1980]

Can you recoup your investment in 5 years? Because if you can you'd be the first case I've heard of that could/did. Most of the studies I've seen didn't achieve payback until well after the finance term and it's quite questionable that the system will even last that long.

Yes, I'm a huge skeptic but you definitely have some other factors to consider in your area vs. mine. In my state you sell your excess power back to the utility at wholesale and are locked into full retail pricing for the power you use from the utility without any of the normal pricing options. Also, we have major roof issues here due to hail, tornadoes and even plain old regular wind, so roof repair costs need to be factored in here. May not be a big deal there.

Sounds like you are looking at the cost factors, I'd just advise you to not just take the company/installer's info to heart because they aren't telling you the whole story. There's a guy in SOCAL that did a video series on his Tesla roof. (ETA: Youtube) He did a pretty good job of explaining his cost/benefit analysis. Take a look at that for starters.

[JohnO]

Was your roof designed for the additional load? What happens if the roof leaks either due to the solar panel installation or general wear & tear? If you need roof work done who removes and reinstalls the solar panels? Is the contractor licensed?

Will your homeowners insurance cover the solar panels? Do you need a new roof first?

[BN]

I would not do solar if I was only going to live there for 5 years or so. This is a long term investment. From my limited experience, the solar companies might make promises that they don't keep. We had been researching solar for 10 years or longer so we had some idea about what was real.

We have a relatively new metal roof. We added the solar panels to our homeowners insurance.

[mtnbkr]

Read my post in the Generac thread. Make sure that you are dealing with a reputable company.

By all appearances they are. Their equipment is sourced from Canada and the US, not China. They don't outsource installation, etc.

I wanted to add that some of the finance companies are pretty mercenary. Whatever you do, do not add the loan for the solar onto your home loan.

That is totally not the plan. The entire cost, without factoring in tax rebates, SRECs, etc is $26k, so I could buy it outright on day 1 if I wanted. Though, I'd be better off putting that money into a decently yielding account (some CDs and specialty savings accounts are delivering more interest than the rate quoted to us by the sales person).

Can you recoup your investment in 5 years? Because if you can you'd be the first case I've heard of that could/did. Most of the studies I've seen didn't achieve payback until well after the finance term and it's quite questionable that the system will even last that long.

Recouping the investment was my idea until the point was made that I'm spending this money (or most of it) already in the form of electricity consumption fees. I'm basically diverting a portion of that to a resource that will theoretically continue to produce after the system is paid off (which is never in my case unless I pay it off out of savings). But, it's not like a depreciating asset that only costs money, but doesn't generate income. This would at least partially offset its cost.

Yes, I'm a huge skeptic but you definitely have some other factors to consider in your area vs. mine. In my state you sell your excess power back to the utility at wholesale and are locked into full retail pricing for the power you use from the utility without any of the normal pricing options. Also, we have major roof issues here due to hail, tornadoes and even plain old regular wind, so roof repair costs need to be factored in here. May not be a big deal there.

We'd sell back at wholesale but buy at the lower tier rates (ie overnight). That needs to be validated, but that's what was pitched. Our roof is new, so it's in good shape. We typically don't have major weather-related roof issues, though it can happen. Per the sales person, the panels are tougher than shingles and would provide some protection (again to be validated).

Sounds like you are looking at the cost factors, I'd just advise you to not just take the company/installer's info to heart because they aren't telling you the whole story. There's a guy in SOCAL that did a video series on his Tesla roof. (ETA: Youtube) He did a pretty good job of explaining his cost/benefit analysis. Take a look at that for starters.

I'm starting with costs because that's what I have that isn't in dispute. I know how much I spend today. I know how much the system will cost. At today's rates, there's no financial benefit, but if rates continue to rise then there will be a point where the financial elements shift in my favor. The question is if that will happen before we leave. But...if the panels increase the value of the home, and the purchase price is less than 10% of our home's current value, then we could recoup the purchase price at sale as well.

Was your roof designed for the additional load? What happens if the roof leaks either due to the solar panel installation or general wear & tear? If you need roof work done who removes and reinstalls the solar panels? Is the contractor licensed?

Don't know if the roof was designed for it (prob not since the house is about 30yo). Per the sales person, they will handle panel-related leak issues. I don't know about the post-install roof work question, but since our roof is brand new (last summer), I don't see us needing roof work before we leave, even if that's 10 years from now.

Will your homeowners insurance cover the solar panels? Do you need a new roof first?

That's another question to be answered if the cost/benefit analysis is such that I want to move forward.

I would not do solar if I was only going to live there for 5 years or so. This is a long term investment. From my limited experience, the solar companies might make promises that they don't keep. We had been researching solar for 10 years or longer so we had some idea about what was real.

Going into this, I was thinking of this as a long-term investment, but with some of the upcoming predicted rate changes, the cost/benefit may turn in our favor sooner. As I learned, while we won't pay this off via savings in 5 or 10 years, because we would now "own" the generation of 60% of our power consumption, we're just spending that money in a different way than if we were just consuming grid power. However, at today's rates, the total cost (solar+grid) is higher than grid alone. But, in 3 years that could change, hence my reluctance to dismiss this out of hand.

That said, based on today's numbers, if we were going to be here for a decade or more AND Ion's claims are accurate, it would be a no-brainer for me. I do like the idea of having some independence from the grid, even if it's not 100%.

Chris

[RoyGBiv]

Lots of solar down here in TX... I have not come across a single person, review, discussion, whatever that has been positive.

Many of the reasons already discussed above.... I'll add one more....

Will the people you sell your house to be willing/interested to take over the payments, maintenance of the solar installation or will that be an impediment to your being able to sell?

[mtnbkr]

Lots of solar down here in TX... I have not come across a single person, review, discussion, whatever that has been positive.

In other venues it seems people are satisfied, but not universally. Usually it comes down to the vendor over-promising and under-delivering (I'm assuming that to be true here) with a number of complaints being around vendors who use sub-contractors (not an issue with Ion) and cheap equipment (also apparently not an issue with Ion).

Will the people you sell your house to be willing/interested to take over the payments, maintenance of the solar installation or will that be an impediment to your being able to sell?

That is certainly a question. That said, the payments are at least partially offset by the reduction in the grid-based consumption, but not 100%. Also, the equipment does have a finite lifespan (40+ years per the sales-person), but so does everything else in the house. What I read from other sources indicates a solar panel installation is viewed as a net positive by buyers, but since I bought my house before solar became a thing...who knows? That said, Virginia does have a mandate to go 100% renewable by 2050, so it can either be at the micro level (home owners) or macro level (Dominion et al).

I told my wife that if this was our retirement home and we would be here for the rest of our lives, I would be inclined to buy it. If nothing else, I like the idea of a bit of energy independence and the geek in me loves this sort of thing. The main concerns are the short duration we expect to be here as well as the performance of the system while we're here (contributing to cost, etc).

Chris

[farscott]

Looked at solar more than once here in SW FL. In addition to the issues mentioned above, I saw the following:

1) Need to know who owns the system as that determines who gets the federal and state (if applicable) tax credits.

2) Low rate financing is a mirage as the "points" to buy down the rate end up being 27% of the loan principal. Getting straight pricing from some companies was a hassle. Sunrun was the most transparent and even then I was juggling multiple quotes in a spreadsheet.

3) Inverters are the weak link, especially in places with a lot of thunderstorms. Getting the parts to replace an inverter can be a hassle even if you do the work. I know more than one person who lost the benefit of solar because parts of the roof were not delivering power due to an inoperable inverter.

4) Roof penetrations are an issue. I was not willing to let the solar companies drill holes in my roof to mount the panels and route wiring after spending a small fortune for a standing seam roof rated for FL wind mitigation needs as it would void the roof warranty.

5) Solar prices are marked up due to the tax credits. A system I had quoted in January of 2022 went up 40% by May of 2022 once the Inflation Reduction Act was being considered.

6) Backup batteries are expensive, and I would not trust them in my garage. Two 12.5kWh batteries ended up adding $30k to my quote.

I like the idea of solar, but I believe the Tesla solar roof approach is the only one that makes sense. I priced that, and it would not payback for more than two decades. Whenever I calculated payback periods, the time was measured in excess of seven years. My ROI rule is three years or less, so I found better uses for my home improvement budget, such as more insulation in the attic, LED lights, better windows, heat pump water heater, and a more efficient HVAC.