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Thread: Baltimore County Police Ditch FNS-40LS

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    The question does arise why an agency would select the FNS when the FN509 is on the market, hoopefully with FNS kinks worked out.
    A better question would be "why would any agency select any FN handgun made in the last decade when they drop support for anything that isn't a "Tactical" model within a few years?"

  2. #12
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    Unhappy

    Perhaps a topic for another thread, but here's why...

    The instructor who organized the search for a better weapon did, I believe, attempt to do an honest job. He had examples from several companies submit examples and had a variety of officers shoot them. Unfortunately, the testing would take several hours to shoot the required course of fire with all the weapons. For whatever reason, some major manufacturers such as Beretta, HK, and Ruger were not included.

    The chief at the time hated Glock for no really good reason. When we went with his likes in 1990 (he was chief for 28 years), we recommended the 9mm SIG 226 which he (and us on the selection committee) believed the best choice at the time. Fast forward a few decades and things had changed.

    I suspect there may have been some thinking that we should get something other than what the county police carried. Our relationship with the county varies between cooperation and competition and I think there was some elitism involved. I suspect have a different gun than everyone else carried entered into the decision.

    The FNS is largely ambidextrous and the lead instructor on the project is a southpaw.

    In reviewing the opinions of officers who fired the weapons, those who liked the FNS really, really liked it and rated it extremely highly. This skewed the ratings of many officers who were happy with other pistols, but not as dogmatic.

    Oh, and while we tested .40 pistols, we chose 9mm. I think most instructors favored the caliber change, but maybe we should have tested some 9mm pistols.

    We were going with S&W pistols until the FN distributor heard of it and lowered his price. No idea on the legalities of that.

    So, while I spent the majority of my career carrying handguns I trusted and one I though the best in the world at the time, I finished with a piece of junk beta-tested with our lives.

    Sums up my career.

  3. #13
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    Maryland
    To add to Baltimore County's problems, FN America just issued a service bulletin stating that the pistols may fire after the trigger is pressed and the slide is out of battery. FN cautions not to do a ta[/rack/up drill if this occurs which somewhat flies in the face of "immediate action drill" as the officer would have to assess why the gun isn't working before correcting the issue.

    https://fnamerica.com/customer-suppo...vice-bulletin/

  4. #14
    You'd think with them requiring people to send their guns back for inspection every 2,000 rounds that they'd have picked up on this earlier.

    I feel more and more vindicated in my decision to never buy another FN pistol that doesn't take rifle mags every day.

  5. #15
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    Maryland
    I forwarded the service bulletin to two firearms instructors who I saw at the FOP holiday party last night. Both informed me that Rockville City PD will be ditching the FNS in favor of the Glock.

    To paraphrase Will Smith during the robot rebellion in "I. Robot": Sometimes I told you so just isn't enough.

  6. #16
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    TEXAS !
    Looks like Baltimore County we’re not the only ones having FNS pistol issues.

    https://www.azmirror.com/2019/04/22/...-all-troopers/

    After discovering critical flaw in gun, DPS quietly replacing guns issued to all troopers
    BY: JEROD MACDONALD-EVOY - APRIL 22, 2019



    Officer Richard Vankeuren had just come home from a day at the shooting range in April 2015 with a bag full of guns slung over his shoulder and his new duty pistol on his hip. The 20-year veteran of the Arizona Department of Public Safety was a firearms trainer and weapons expert, but he was about to experience a first.

    As he lifted the bag off his shoulder, he heard a “boom” and smelled gunpowder. His first thought was that one of the guns in his bag had gone off.

    Then he looked down.

    Vankeuren’s Fabrique Nationale Herstal pistol had gone off in its holster, shooting him through the right leg.

    The gun, an FNS 9, was one of the first Fabrique Nationale pistols purchased by DPS for use by its officers. Vankeuren was part of the Firearms Training Unit, the division within DPS that trains troopers and is also responsible for testing and evaluating new weapons for the force.

    The investigation into Vankeuren’s accidental shooting determined that a key on the exterior of his bag had become wedged in the trigger.

    But more than three years later, the Firearms Training Unit would discover an issue with the FNS 9 pistols that are the standard sidearm for every DPS trooper that causes them to fire unexpectedly – or not fire at all.

    Shortly after the flaw was discovered, DPS began hurriedly replacing the roughly 1,500 FNS pistols it purchased over four years beginning in the 2015 fiscal year, when it ditched the SIG Sauer pistols that all troopers carried in the name of cost savings.

    Faulty firearms ‘could cost people their lives’

    In fiscal years 2015 through 2018, DPS spent about $281,000 to buy new FNS pistols, utilizing trade-ins to cut the costs of the new guns.

    Dr. Michael Scott, a professor of criminology at Arizona State University who has worked with a number of law enforcement agencies across the country, said the problems DPS has discovered with the FNS pistols are concerning.

    “This creates a higher risk for either accidental discharge or unintended failure to discharge, both of which could cost people their lives,” he said.

    During testing of the weapons in 2018, DPS found that three Fabrique Nationale pistols – the FNS 9 Longslide, which was carried by troopers, and the FNS C and FNS 9 – all had two conditions that could cause them to either fire without pulling the trigger or not fire when the trigger was pulled.

    It is unknown what prompted the additional testing some three years after DPS began arming troopers with the FNS pistols.

    In a safety bulletin video released internally in August 2018 and obtained by the Arizona Mirror through a public records request, footage is shown of the weapons firing after being bumped or hit.

    “A tap, rack, any side-to-side or up-and-down movement, a sharp jarring blow and even holstering and unholstering will cause the weapon to fire with no further contact with the trigger,” a narrator in the undated video says after explaining the conditions in which this malfunction can occur.

    The malfunction happens when the slide of the gun is slightly pushed back and the trigger and action does not fully reset. This is called being “out of battery.”

    When a pistol is out of battery, safety mechanisms initiate to ensure the gun does not fire. However, DPS found that, in some instances when the slide was put back into position, the FN pistols would fire.

    DPS also discovered that sometimes the gun wouldn’t fire when the slide returned to its normal position – but if the weapon was bumped or hit, it would fire unexpectedly.

    Scott, the ASU professor and law enforcement consultant, said if he had experienced something similar in his department, he’d likely suspend use of that firearm immediately.

    It has been roughly eight months since DPS learned of the issue. DPS is in the process of switching from Fabrique Nationale to Glock pistols for duty weapons. So far this fiscal year, DPS has spent more than $160,000 on replacement pistols.

    But the department still has 540 FNs in use, meaning nearly half of the agency’s troopers are carrying a weapon they know might accidentally discharge – or might not fire at all when they need it to.

    There are no known incidents in which FNS guns carried by DPS troopers have failed to fire because the firearm was out of battery.

    DPS spokesman Bart Graves said the agency is replacing the pistols not because of the defects that DPS discovered, but because FN notified DPS that it intends to “cease production” of the pistol.

    DPS began testing out different pistols in 2014 to determine what might become the next duty sidearm for troopers. An evaluation of the FN pistols by the Firearms Training Unit found that the cost of FN pistols and their ammo would lead to “potential budget savings for the agency.”

    The Baltimore connection

    DPS isn’t the only agency replacing its officers FNS pistols. Some 2,000 miles away, the Baltimore County Police Department is replacing all of the Fabrique Nationale guns it bought in recent years after DPS shared its findings with the agency.

    Why DPS never informed the general public that the FNS pistols, which are popular among recreational and competition shooters, were prone to malfunctioning is unknown.

    Baltimore County is in the process of spending $1.4 million to replace more than 2,000 FNS pistols used not only by the police, but by correctional officers and sheriff’s deputies, according to the Baltimore Sun.

    In August 2018, DPS sent Baltimore County its safety bulletin video, prompting the agency to conduct its own safety tests.

    And Baltimore County discovered something more when examining the firearm.

    Inside the trigger, the roll pin could fall out, which would cause the trigger to separate from the gun, making it impossible to fire. The department found three guns that experienced this issue in the past two years, the Baltimore Sun reported.

    The company responded to media reports on the accidental discharges and issues found by Baltimore County, saying that the delayed fire would only happen in “unlikely circumstances” and that it “posted a Service Bulletin to the public with an offer of a free striker upgrade for those who wished to send their pistol in.”

    The Mirror has requested all emails and memos between the two departments but was told the request will likely take up to 12 months.

    In September 2018, a Baltimore County police officer carrying an FNS pistol shot himself while in training.

    The officer was disassembling his sidearm when it misfired, the Baltimore Sun reported.

    The series of pistols in question were created by Fabrique Nationale and are the company’s first striker pistols.

    Striker pistols do not use a hammer as the main mechanism to fire the weapon, and are commonly used by law enforcement. Both Phoenix Police and Mesa Police use Glock’s line of striker pistols. DPS is also buying those Glock striker pistols to replace the FNS guns.

    An internal striker mechanism is cocked when the slide of the gun is racked, or pulled back, which can only be undone by pulling the trigger. One reason DPS says it switched to striker pistols is that they allow troopers to shoot faster.

    Fabrique Nationale has maintained that the weapons were thoroughly tested and that the situations that result in the misfires were unique and unlikely. The company did not respond to a request for comment from the Mirror.


  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    Looks like Baltimore County we’re not the only ones having FNS pistol issues.

    https://www.azmirror.com/2019/04/22/...-all-troopers/

    After discovering critical flaw in gun, DPS quietly replacing guns issued to all troopers
    BY: JEROD MACDONALD-EVOY - APRIL 22, 2019






    On a side note, it’s kinda cool when your firearms related phone number contains both 223 and 308.

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