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Thread: The negatives of neck control in a weapons environment

  1. #1

    The negatives of neck control in a weapons environment

    Since a number of people seemed to like and get something positive out of the entangled knife vids, I decided to put this one up.

    There is a reason that I never advocate or teach the use of any kind of neck control in a clinch when there may be weapons involved. And I explain and show why here:


    For info about training or to contact me:
    Immediate Action Combatives

  2. #2
    Awesome, thanks Cecil!

  3. #3
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    This stuff is gold here. I tend to make it a point to listen when Cecil has stuff to say.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Site Supporter MGW's Avatar
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    Definitely changing my standup clinch mindset. I go to a Thai clinch a lot when I spar. Thanks for that Cecil.

  5. #5
    Great stuff, Cecil. Please keep it coming. I am hoping to make it to a course with you in the near future.
    My comments have not been approved by my employer and do not necessarily represent the views of my employer. These are my comments, not my employer's.

  6. #6
    Cecil,

    Would you please comment on how that applies to the ground in side control or full mount / dominant position.

    For instance - in a weapons based environment - is north south more dominant than full mount? Head control, misaligning the spine, pressure vs. being heavy and controlling the arms.

    What is the more dominant position (weapons based environment) for the physically smaller and lighter defender?

    Hell I just need to take your course.

    Thank you for your time and willingness to share your hard earned information..


    Jeremy

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by KneeShot View Post
    Cecil,

    Would you please comment on how that applies to the ground in side control or full mount / dominant position.

    For instance - in a weapons based environment - is north south more dominant than full mount? Head control, misaligning the spine, pressure vs. being heavy and controlling the arms.

    What is the more dominant position (weapons based environment) for the physically smaller and lighter defender?

    Hell I just need to take your course.

    Thank you for your time and willingness to share your hard earned information..


    Jeremy

    It applies to every ground position in this way - arm control is number one, and life-preserving crucial. Everything else is later down the list.

    Here is the concept (in order of importance and order of what comes first)

    1) control the arms - that is how the other guy is going to attack, and it will be his first line of defense against your attack

    2) control the space - Once you control what his arms are able to do, then you can dictate the needed space. For defense, you need room, and for attack you need to take up his space (in a general sense. If you want to disengage and move away, you will create space to do so, but you have to start where he does not have room to move in the way he wants).

    3) control the position - if you don't have the first two, then position is meaningless. Mount is great, but if the guy on top leaves my arms free and allows my hips to move how I want, I will get out of mount in the blink of an eye.

    4) finish - whatever is contextually appropriate. In a straight BJJ session, it may be a choke or armlock. In an MMA match, it might be a KO. In a SD event, it may be using a weapon, of running away, or holding him for the cops.

    So to directly address your question, what position is best changes. North-south is good because it is easy to control his arms, but it is harder to control the space because his hips can move freely. Mount is good because you have maximal control over the space (how far can he move from you) but it is a bit harder to completely control his arms (but your lower body tends to be between his arms and his weapons so that is a plus). For A smaller guy most top positions are harder because you don't have the mass, so something like reverse kesa-gatame (think a typical headlock on the ground position, but where you turn to face his feet rather than his head) is great because you kill the arms, block his arms, and can ride out his hip movement, and it allows free access to your own weapons that he can't stop. But the drawback is you don't have much else you can attack with from there. So it is all dependent on what is needed in the moment.

    What is not dependent, and what brings me back to your first question, is that arm control is always first on the list, and I will not ever sacrifice that just to control the head/neck. The only time I will control the head/neck is when through other means (positional or otherwise) I have his arms under some semblance of control.
    For info about training or to contact me:
    Immediate Action Combatives

  8. #8
    Cecil,

    Thank you for the descriptive, detailed expertise, and your time in doing so! Most Excellent.

    Jeremy

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