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Thread: Red dot vs iron sight gun

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDep View Post
    I live in CA, where rain is almost a myth, but both this week and last week we got hit hard with good storms that allowed me to play with my type-1 RMR in rain, mud, and snow. In heavy rain I had no problem making 50 and 100 yard hits on steel torso targets (10"x12" bodies with 5" square head) and while the dot is a bit harder to find it wasn't nearly as problematic as I thought it would be. Snow was obviously less of an issue. Of course, I didn't go from cold into warm and have to shoot, so earlier today I experimented and put my Glock and RMR in the snow for a few minutes and then brought it it. There was some fogging but no problem seeing the dot. So I put it in the freezer at 0 degrees for a half hour then took it out. It took a solid 10 minutes before it was usable. I'd bet the Aimpoint would do WAY better on that because I think much of the problem was the emitter, not the window. I tried the 38 degree refrigerator for a half hour and then took it out (about 68 degree ambient in my house) and had just a tiny bit of fogging that wouldn't cause much of a problem if at all.

    Now... Let's talk about the Glock. What a diva! A bit of water and a "teeny" bit of mud and the thing gives me stovepipes, failures to feed, and light strikes galore!!!
    To be clear, the RMR was more reliable than the Glock???? Unpossible! Folks here say RMRs are unreliable and fragile! You must be lying!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #22
    Member SoCalDep's Avatar
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    Mar 2016
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    I don't know... We'll see. This gun has around three thousand rounds through it at this point with the RMR and aside from a little initial flicker that went away and one battery change at right around the one-year mark it's been boringly reliable. I also really like the 6.5 MOA dot (most seem to prefer the 3.25 - I have a Type 2 3.25 coming so we'll see how that goes) and the auto adjust. It works great and the only exception is when in a very dark room with a WML activated, which can drown out the dot. Of course, the WML makes the iron sights stick out like crazy and once the iron sights are aligned the dot is clearly visible as well.

    I don't want to say the dot is better, because it makes it hard for me to justify my non-dot guns, but... I'm really thinking the dot is better. Of course, I'm really trying to find those failure points.

  3. #23
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    Oct 2013
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    East Greenwich, RI
    Thanks George,

    A very timely thread for me. Iím to the point where my eyes would greatly benefit from an optic. I decided to start shooting Carry Optics and was leaning towards a Walther Q5. As much as I donít really enjoy shooting Glocks, no doubt their optic options far surpass everyone else.

    And nice shooting for the Bride!

  4. #24
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    Nov 2012
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    San Antonio, TX
    Interesting thread. I've been thinking about it. I have three Glocks - two of them have front sights that have fairly visible white dots or circles (around the night sights on one). The other has just a black front sight with the tritium dot (the white circle is gone). So at a match, I shot this latter gun and for a far shot against a darkish background, my old eyes couldn't see the damn sight to align it and my score on those two targets should not be discussed. Since the gun is a G19 Gen 2, I'm thinking of using it for a trade on some dottish Gen 5. The first two guns I shoot just fine as I can see the dot.

    Old eyes, bah.

  5. #25
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    Palo Alto, CA
    Glad to see everyone catching up....
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    Glad to see everyone catching up....
    Are the folks you know (and yourself, of course) still finding the RMR setups to work well and last?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #27
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    RMR works very well concealed.

    I suspect the new Aimpoint is going to be superb, but we have no where near enough data yet.

    The Micro Aimpoints have been pretty good as well for rugged environments.
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  8. #28
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
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    northern CA
    And Iíve started back on the RDS journey. Took a 2 day RDS class, down in LA, over the weekend. Alas, weather did not interfere.

    Round count was around 550+/- and an upgraded type 1 RMR shockingly held up. For me, that was one of the biggest things from the class ... I felt I could trust the dot mechanically again.

  9. #29
    My wifeís red dot experiment continues to proceed. She had her best match to date today.

    I canít emphasize how much the red dot has helped her overall shooting.

    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  10. #30
    Site Supporter
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    Rather than clutter up the "ninety percent" thread, I thought it made more sense to post this here:

    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    There are a bunch of things that are easier with a red dot. There are also a bunch of things that are different, and potentially harder with a red dot, such as:

    Learning to shoot a group when the dot appears to move more than iron sights.
    I've long been a fan of the "sight movie" conceptualization of "sight picture," so this really isn't an issue for me. My B8 game has substantially improved shooting a dot. I shot a 4 inch group at 50 yards yesterday with cheap practice ammo through my 19.5 mos. I've never been able to shoot groups like that with iron sights on our indoor range.

    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Reliably acquiring the dot on the presentation.
    Maybe it's the eleventy billion presentations I've done with an iron sight pistol, but I've had zero problems acquiring the dot shooting freestyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Reliably acquiring the dot with one hand.
    This is something that I've had to work on a bit more. I think I'm much sloppier with my one handed presentations, which irons allow to be cleaned up very quickly, but this is a little more problematic with a dot. So far, I've had good luck doing a ToddG style muzzle up press out when shooting one handed. It might be slightly slower than what I'm doing freestyle, but it effectively eliminates hunting for the dot. The dot just "drops into the bucket" (that's how I conceptualize it in my head) at the end of the press out.

    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Losing the reference of the slide on closer shots.
    I'm more of a "gun in front of face = slap trigger" on hoser shots, so I haven't noticed a difference. I guess if I wanted to be fancy, I'd say that I have a refined proprioceptive index that's sufficient for shooting that requires less aiming.

    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Learning the dot does not need to stop, just stay within the acceptable scoring area.
    Again, "sight movie" concept for the win. Irons are doing the same thing. We just get less visual feedback from iron sights.

    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Tracking the dot in recoil.
    I feel like this should be in the "easier for everybody" column. Even when I'm really pushing speed and I break the first shot before I even perceive the dot, I'll almost always pickup the dot in recoil and track it through all subsequent shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    On balance, I think the red dot on a pistol while not as much of an advantage as a red dot on a carbine is a net positive, and subject to durability and reliability advances (Aimpoint are you getting close) is the future. It also makes you a better iron sight shooter.
    Agreed. I'll definitely be visiting the Aimpoint booth at SHOT.
    Last edited by joshs; 12-15-2018 at 08:05 PM.

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