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Thread: Red dot vs iron sight gun

  1. #161
    My wife’s match video from today.

    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  2. #162
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
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    I shot my very first rounds through an RDS equipped pistol (TR-25 on a Ruger MkIV 22-45) about three months ago. Yesterday, shooting my P365XL with a 507K on it, I was able to effortlessly hit a 3x5 card at 25 yards, shooting as quickly as I could get the dot to settle into an acceptable arc of movement. This thing really is a game changer for long range, precision shooting.

    Still struggling with finding the dot out of the holster, so once my basement is settled from building reloading and work benches, I'll have to get a "dry fire" range set up. I see a lot of dry fire "draw, acquire dot, press trigger" in my future until finding that dot becomes second nature.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by psalms144.1 View Post
    I shot my very first rounds through an RDS equipped pistol (TR-25 on a Ruger MkIV 22-45) about three months ago. Yesterday, shooting my P365XL with a 507K on it, I was able to effortlessly hit a 3x5 card at 25 yards, shooting as quickly as I could get the dot to settle into an acceptable arc of movement. This thing really is a game changer for long range, precision shooting.

    Still struggling with finding the dot out of the holster, so once my basement is settled from building reloading and work benches, I'll have to get a "dry fire" range set up. I see a lot of dry fire "draw, acquire dot, press trigger" in my future until finding that dot becomes second nature.
    The great thing about that issue, is you can sort out your presentation without firing a single cartridge. As you know, iron sights allow misalignment that would cause a red dot to go AWOL from the display. I would stop as soon as the dot isn’t there on the draw and see which way it is displaced, why, and fix that.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  4. #164
    Site Supporter JSGlock34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    If someone is dedicated and is planning to make this a long-term journey, I think I'd suggest starting with a dot these days.
    I've been thinking about this lately, as I've somewhat recently started instructing my son, using a Glock 44 (obviously with irons). When he's ready for centerfire, I think I'll introduce the red dot relatively early though.

    That said, I still have a difficult time recommending a dot gun to a new shooter, however dedicated. The dot just offers so many more complications - how many problems are traced to improper mounting, just to start? Whether they can even shoot a good zero is another. My usual recommendation to a new buyer is to pick up a Glock 17/19 with Ameriglo Bold sights from the factory, and I still think that's the default answer, though if a SKU for a MOS version with Trooper sights were out there, I'd probably start suggesting that as measure of future proofing.
    "When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."

  5. #165
    Member JMS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bio View Post
    Hah, great question that I don't have an answer for right now. I'd like to be able to fire accurately and rapidly at close distances and accurately at longer distances, but that's not especially clear. My main goal for a handgun is home and personal defense.
    There was a time when I'd have said that starting with irons is a must-have, but those days are past, based upon the fact that I had to do a lot of work to change my draw-stroke to ensure that I could pick up the dot reliably. Genuinely, still a work-in-progress; it's hard to un-learn stuff...

    Given that learning to be successful with picking up the dot on the draw effectively guarantees the ability to pick up irons on the draw (and the reverse not automatically being correct), I think that the dot can be taught from the jump, and that the practice of the use of irons can be done in much the same way one practices SHO/WHO, one-handed manipulations, etc. Maybe 10-15% of the time; you pick the interval at which you practice the low-percentage stuff, however much it takes to make/keep you competent.

    How you define "Competent" must also be established...

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMS View Post
    There was a time when I'd have said that starting with irons is a must-have, but those days are past, based upon the fact that I had to do a lot of work to change my draw-stroke to ensure that I could pick up the dot reliably. Genuinely, still a work-in-progress; it's hard to un-learn stuff...

    Given that learning to be successful with picking up the dot on the draw effectively guarantees the ability to pick up irons on the draw (and the reverse not automatically being correct), I think that the dot can be taught from the jump, and that the practice of the use of irons can be done in much the same way one practices SHO/WHO, one-handed manipulations, etc. Maybe 10-15% of the time; you pick the interval at which you practice the low-percentage stuff, however much it takes to make/keep you competent.

    How you define "Competent" must also be established...
    I think, for me, competent is "able to protect my family from violent threats". Admittedly, this is still vague. What % of violent threats? 100% is obviously desirable, but just as obviously impossible. As a total newbie in this field, I don't have a good sense of how much time/effort/training is required to attain an arbitrary level of proficiency, which is why it's hard for me to specify an answer. Training is on the list of things to do, of course.

  7. #167
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
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    Another data point from my perspective. I'm in the middle to teaching a pair of new shooters who have developed a desire to be able to shoot handguns. I've had them both out to the range with the G44 for about five sessions now, and the "him" version of the pair recently switched to a G19 that he had to have. He has been struggling with picking up even the hi visibility sights on his Ameriglo-equipped Glock, so I handed him my 365XL with 507K. He immediately went from shooting "patterns" to shooting 12 rounds into a 4" circle at 10 yards without a miss, and at a pretty decent shooting pace.

    He's got a 507C on order...

    Interestingly enough, his wife, who is an absolute NATURAL (never in the same room with a firearm before our first class six weeks ago) - has no bad habits to break, and no ego. She's completely terrifying with the G44 - she's shooting dime-size groups at 10 yards at a very respectable shooting pace. But, she's cross-eye dominant, and she can't seem to pick up the red dot no matter how she moves her head to try to get it to appear.

  8. #168
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    I am cross eye dominant as well. The trick is not to move your head but change her wrist angle slightly and the red dot or irons will be aligned.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

  9. #169
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    To explain in more detail, have her extend the gun and keep her head straight and then change her wrist angle until she can see the dot. Later when she wants to practice drawing, start her with arms extended and red dot on target and then work backwards by bringing her arms in until her hands begin to separate. This will be the path she will need to ingrain for the draw.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

  10. #170
    My wife’s match video from today.

    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

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