Have to agree with Bill. In my ten years of teaching civilians (after I retired from teaching deputies) I emphasized Rule #2 above all others. If the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction and the unthinkable or the unintended happens, you get a surprise and you will probably be embarrassed but nothing of value is destroyed or dead.Originally Posted by Bill Nesbitt
Dave
Last edited by Dave T; 11-23-2018 at 03:21 PM.
Most of the people trying to re-write the rules, or amend them, never really understood them to begin with or are trying to make a name for themselves re-inventing the world.
So many people are so quick to write off the old man simply becauseld. Most should shut the fuck up and pay more attention.
Did Cooper write the rules or just popularize them?Most of the people trying to re-write the rules, or amend them, never really understood them to begin with or are trying to make a name for themselves re-inventing the world.
So many people are so quick to write off the old man simply because
Reeves, Ira L. "The A B C of Rifle, Revolver and Pistol Shooting" published in 1913:
https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA...page&q&f=falseThe Accident-Proof Rule:
- "The muzzle of a firearm should never point in a direction in which, if discharged, it would do injury where injury is not meant to be done."
The companion rule of the one just given:
- "All firearms are at all times loaded."
Finally:
- "The trigger should never be pulled until the identity of the thing fired at has been established beyond any doubt."
Or, we've found a better way and moved on. The NRA rules are simpler and, frankly, better. They do not introduce the concept of "loaded" when discussing how the gun should be handled. I've already explained why that's a problem, and base that on a shit ton of UDs resulting in injury or death. I don't know how many I've personally investigated, but about 10 a month came through my old office. Some people are just idiots, or haven't been trained in the slightest, and no rules are going to reach them. However with the marginally to decently trained people with UD's I've seen it comes back to the "I thought it was unloaded" mind set more often then not, and generally improper clearing leading up to that thought. NRA's rules don't put that notion out there. Guns are guns, loaded or not.Most of the people trying to re-write the rules, or amend them, never really understood them to begin with or are trying to make a name for themselves re-inventing the world.
So many people are so quick to write off the old man simply because
https://gunsafetyrules.nra.org/
I think people *can* be safe with the 4 rules, but I think if you apply a little W. Edwards Deming to them you can see it sets a lot of marginally trained people up for failure. I base this on a metric shit ton of real world shootings, which btw tend to happen not on the range but in homes, cars, businesses, and streets. Range shootings are, of course, biased toward drawing/holstering injuries. Off range injuries are much more tilted toward "admin handling", unauthorized people finding the gun (and if I *never* see another toddler who's shot themselves in the chest it'll be a true blessing), and generally fuckery. Generally fuckery will still occur. The NRA rules fix the first two for a wider audience.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
All this discussion, all these good points made, and I still haven’t seen a decent suggestion for helping the community self-police and mitigate against emotionally retarded kids grabbing mom or dad’s AR to shoot up the classroom. If we don’t find a way to start some positive peer pressure at the point of sale to reduce incidence, then the states will start up with the policing, themselves.
And, yeah, I get that no rule (or law) will stop a truly motivated and evil individual. The 4 rules (or 3, or 2, or 10) won’t stop a true idiot from shooting themselves or a family member on accident, either, but we are looking at ways to encourage folks on the fence to perhaps stop and think, and maybe fall on the correct side of the fence.
”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB
I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't. Safe firearms storage should be part of any instruction for new shooters.
After spending some time as an RSO, it’s my observation people only observe the Four Rules when they’re in public- and if it’s perceived the weapons are loaded. Unfortunately laypeople are pretty atrocious at determining if a guns loaded or not. I’ve got way too many stories of people bringing loaded guns to my range and not knowing they’re chambered.
“Oh my” ....40 caliber round zings out of the ejection port....”I didn’t remember it was loaded”.
“Honey...” embarrassed guy turns to smirking wife “did you load this? I don’t remember it being loaded”....as I pick up a .223 round from the floor near the clearing barrel.
The Four Rules were written in a society of personally accountable people. We don’t live there anymore, and should adapt our safety standards accordingly.
The Minority Marksman.
"When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet."
-a Ch'an Buddhist axiom.
In a sense, the debate is like that of the QWERTY keyboard vs. the better proven solutions. The first is so ingrained that it would be hard to remove from common usage. It is good though to discuss safety points. The one that GardoneVT makes is a good one. I've gone hunting once with some safety horror handling shows.
That reminds of an another rule. Remember that your dog can pull the trigger.
How about just one:
Think, and don't do stupid shit with guns.
To quote a very switched on guy who trained operators.
(in context we were discussing attributes of potential candidates in regards to doing PSD and other type work, but it also applies here)
"We need thinkers who are shooters, and shooters who are thinkers".
That is all.
Pretty much. Although, people have most likely been shooting themselves in the dick--and elsewhere--since the invention of the wheellock.
I agree 100% that this is the Platonic ideal of firearms safety. That said, from a bird's eye view, it reads more as an argument against the individual right, rather than for it (and I'm pretty sure you're not anti 2A, just pointing out that a working theory coming from that ideal is wishing for the existence of 100 million American thinkers in one hand, and shitting in the other. JMO).
”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB
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