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Thread: Is it finally time for a 5th rule?

  1. #11
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    The problem with the 4 rules and the potential 5th is that the people who would obey them don't really need to be told and the people who need to be told won't listen no matter how often you reiterate them.

    I read an article from Greg Ellefritz the other day in which he discussed what should be Vs. what is. The example he used was "By God I shouldn't have to lock my car in my driveways (or do anymore to secure my weapon than lock the car doors) because it's on my property and you're not supposed to there."

    His point was that those people are absolutely right they SHOULDN'T have to do that but the reality is they DO.

    That's the point I try to make when ever this particular argument comes up. Yes, the thief is 100% responsible for his theft BUT I'm the one who is out 600 bucks.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
    Was it Clint Smith who said that Col Cooper should've just stopped after rule 1?

    Ive been in a class where the instructor said the 5th rule was to not attempt to catch a dropped gun, then proceeded to tell us about a young officer who centerpunched herself with her duty gun.

    So maybe 6 rules then?

    I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.

    My understanding from being in 8 or 9 of Clint’s classes and the story he tells is that he painted the first sigh for the rules back in the day. There was one rule. Then folks kept fucking up and Cooper added more rules.

    I’m good with 4. I can’t remember those.

  3. #13
    Member Peally's Avatar
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    Mar 2014
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    No, no need for another rule especially one not related to immediate safety. If you're going to expand it beyond basic critical fundamentals of handling safety to cover every dumbass thing you could do with a gun you'd need a few years to write that impressive tome.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

  4. #14
    In my youth, The Ten Commandments of Gun Safety was common. I don't remember them.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  5. #15
    Member That Guy's Avatar
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    overseas
    I agree with others that the four rules (or is that The Four Rules? ) are about handling a firearm and not an all encompassing guide to life as a firearm owner.

    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    *Dropping the "treat as if loaded..." and variants. It creates a disconnect, particularly among the literal minded, that if you handle it like it's loaded there must also be a proper way to handle it if its unloaded.
    Kind of funny thing - I use the first rule to specifically point out that there is no "unloaded handling method".

    I teach the first rule the way it was originally stated - all firearms are always loaded - and when discussing the rules go on to explain that it is a mindset rule, and the reason we treat all firearms that way is because mistakes happen and we can not trust with other people's lives that the chamber is empty, even if someone at some point in history has checked it.

  6. #16
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    Following on to BehindBlueI’s comment I believe Pat MacNamara uses something similar to ST911’s Recommendation 1, be absolutely sure of the status of your weapon. Seems like a sensible change.

    I fully agree we need to police ourselves and should be teaching others to secure weapons not in use but don’t feel it belongs as a “gun handing” rule for all the reasons previously mentioned.

  7. #17
    Member ubervic's Avatar
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    Mid-Atlantic
    To each his own.
    I'll incorporate the fifth rule along with the traditional four, and will encourage all as core components/basics with anyone whom I have the privilege of introducing to firearms.

  8. #18
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post

    Kind of funny thing - I use the first rule to specifically point out that there is no "unloaded handling method".

    I teach the first rule the way it was originally stated - all firearms are always loaded - and....
    If there is no "unloaded handling method" there is no need to bring loaded status into the equation, no need to pretend it's loaded, nor to "treat it like...". It's as irrelevant as finish or caliber. Treat a gun like a gun. Only once it's mechanically unable to fire, i.e. slide removed from frame, can it be anything other than a gun. Then it's gun parts.

    My personal opinion is the first rule actually encourages the "I thought it was unloaded " discharges by some personality types.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  9. #19
    Hoplophilic doc SAWBONES's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
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    The Third Dimension
    The "Four Rules" address active gun-handling, not administrative handling (cleaning, storing, etc., even including "carrying without touching"), nor indeed can they address all aspects of administrative gun-handling.

    The proposed 5th Rule, while certainly sensible, is part of administrative handling.
    "Therefore, since the world has still... Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure, Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would, And train for ill and not for good." -- A.E. Housman

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peally View Post
    If you're going to expand it beyond basic critical fundamentals of handling safety to cover every dumbass thing you could do with a gun you'd need a few years to write that impressive tome.
    I do teach a fifth rule: "Don't be a dumbass."

    That fifth rule covers all the stupid shit someone can do that isn't covered by the first four rules.

    At the end of class today I asked them if they left there only learning two things what should they be. At the same time multiple people said keep a flashlight with your home defense gun and don't be a dumbass. I was so proud of them.

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