Small dots don't seem to work for me. Any red dots that have an etched reticle?

[mrozowjj]

I've mostly been an iron sights shooter until a few years ago... in part because I was just too cheap to buy a good optics.

The issue I seem to have is that smaller sized dots are only crisp for me at brightness levels where it's hard to make them out. In order to actually see the dot I have to turn the brightness up to a point where the dot becomes a starburst. I thought maybe I have astigmatism but no eye doctor has ever said anything to me about it and I had laser eye surgery back in 2005 and I wouldn't have been able to do that if I had astigmatism.

Also I found bigger dots aren't really an issue so much. I know the Dual Illum RMR are generally considered to be crap to most people but I used a friend's amber dot and it looked perfectly clear and crisp. I also have put a Vortex Venom 6 MOA dot on a pistol recently and when turned down as low as it goes it's easy to see and much crisper than any other smaller dot I've tried.

So far I've tried
Trijicon MRO (2 MOA)
Aimpoint PRO (2 MOA)
Vortex AMG UH-1 (1 MOA)

And all of them have been various levels of difficult in that regard. On pistols bigger dots are fine because realistically I'm never going to shoot a pistol at a distance where having a bigger dot is a detriment but on a rifle or other long arm big dots aren't that great so I'm thinking most of my rifles are going to have to have LPV from here on out but then there's my Scorpion carbine which brings me to this post.

My scorpion has surprised me with how accurate it is that I sometimes like to shoot it at 100 yards just because it's fun and with good ammo I've gotten it down to 4-5" which is pretty cool. I made a post here a while ago about putting a LPV on the gun and the general consensus was, "It's overkill." however putting a smaller sized dot on it is no go and putting a big dot is going to make 100 yards harder than I'd like... so does anyone make a red dot that isn't a red dot? I saw Vortex makes the Spitfire that is a prismatic optic which I like the sound of but it's inexpensive which makes me think it's lower quality and not like "super serious."

So are there any smaller dot red dot things with an etched reticle? Or should I just say screw it and find a deal on a 1-4 and throw it on my Scorpion no matter how silly that seams?

Also I had to fight the urge to title this post "I like big dots and I cannot lie..."

[einherjarvalk]

I think Burris has one, the AR-1X. That said, I wouldn't see anything wrong with dropping a Spitfire on the Scorpion. Worst case scenario, Vortex's warranty takes care of you.

[03RN]

I think an RMR would be perfect for the scorpion.

[El Cid]

I’ve been researching the Vortex Spitfire 1x and Primary Arms 1x Compact prism. They seem to be what you’re looking for.

[HCM]

I think an RMR would be perfect for the scorpion.

The RMR 07 has a 6.5 moa dot.

The Aimpoint micro shotgun optic, the S1 also has a 6moa dot.

[scott]

maybe a TA44?

[NH Shooter]

Like others with astigmatism, I find precision with a RDS is somewhat compromised. Assuming defensive use with range to around 100 yards, the precision may still be more than adequate aiming with a "cluster of grapes" vs. a well-defined dot.

I experimented with the Leupold Prismastic, which had some advantages over the Aimpoints in terms of a well defined (etched) reticle and clarity of view, but with fixed eye-relief distance and more weight.

I experimented with three different LPV scopes (all in the $500 to $800 range). Definitely some advantages to them, but they all turned my "lightweight carbine" into a not-so-lightweight-anymore rifle. The last one I tried was the Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4X in a GG&G mount, weighing 17 ounces combined. That was a really nice set up but I just couldn't warm up to the reticle of the VX-R Patrol.

I am a HUGE fan of iron sights, but at my age I can no longer get both the front post and target in adequate focus to use them effectively beyond 100 yards or so. Very depressing... :-(

So, this leaves me in the same boat as you - the realization that I need an optic with an etched reticle and adjustable eyepiece for me to see both the target and aiming point with clarity. To achieve that with as little weight (and complication) as possible, I'm installing this scope and mount on my AR this week;

https://www.leupold.com/scopes/rimfi...light-2-5x20mm

https://danieldefense.com/components...uble-ring.html

Definitely not the latest Tactical Timmy set up, but at 12 ounces combined (and under $400 total) I think it will work. The scope just arrived and I very much like the view through it: crystal clear, a sharply focused duplex reticle, five inches of forgiving eye relief and two-eyes-open usable...and the scope weighs just 6.4 ounces! No variable power, no illuminated mil-dot reticle, no tactical turrets but I'm OK with that.

The DD mount arrives tomorrow and I'll be hitting the range this weekend. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this set up will work for this old guy as envisioned.

[BigD]

I've mostly been an iron sights shooter until a few years ago... in part because I was just too cheap to buy a good optics.

The issue I seem to have is that smaller sized dots are only crisp for me at brightness levels where it's hard to make them out. In order to actually see the dot I have to turn the brightness up to a point where the dot becomes a starburst. I thought maybe I have astigmatism but no eye doctor has ever said anything to me about it and I had laser eye surgery back in 2005 and I wouldn't have been able to do that if I had astigmatism.

Also I found bigger dots aren't really an issue so much. I know the Dual Illum RMR are generally considered to be crap to most people but I used a friend's amber dot and it looked perfectly clear and crisp. I also have put a Vortex Venom 6 MOA dot on a pistol recently and when turned down as low as it goes it's easy to see and much crisper than any other smaller dot I've tried.

So far I've tried
Trijicon MRO (2 MOA)
Aimpoint PRO (2 MOA)
Vortex AMG UH-1 (1 MOA)

And all of them have been various levels of difficult in that regard. On pistols bigger dots are fine because realistically I'm never going to shoot a pistol at a distance where having a bigger dot is a detriment but on a rifle or other long arm big dots aren't that great so I'm thinking most of my rifles are going to have to have LPV from here on out but then there's my Scorpion carbine which brings me to this post.

My scorpion has surprised me with how accurate it is that I sometimes like to shoot it at 100 yards just because it's fun and with good ammo I've gotten it down to 4-5" which is pretty cool. I made a post here a while ago about putting a LPV on the gun and the general consensus was, "It's overkill." however putting a smaller sized dot on it is no go and putting a big dot is going to make 100 yards harder than I'd like... so does anyone make a red dot that isn't a red dot? I saw Vortex makes the Spitfire that is a prismatic optic which I like the sound of but it's inexpensive which makes me think it's lower quality and not like "super serious."

So are there any smaller dot red dot things with an etched reticle? Or should I just say screw it and find a deal on a 1-4 and throw it on my Scorpion no matter how silly that seams?

Also I had to fight the urge to title this post "I like big dots and I cannot lie..."

Who cares if someone tells you it's overkill? What's the phrase "if it's stupid and it works, then it's not stupid" (or something like that)? I'd find a 1-4 you like, and if you never dial it off 1x, who cares?

Having said that, my 1-4 is a little more finicky about eye relief than an Aimpoint or Eotech. Something to be aware of but it wasn't a deal breaker for me. That and weight would be two drawbacks.

[mrozowjj]

The RMR 07 has a 6.5 moa dot.

The Aimpoint micro shotgun optic, the S1 also has a 6moa dot.

Yeah I was hoping for something that I can be a bit more precise with given that it is a carbine. The 6 MOA dot I have has some blooming with my eyes but nothing outlandish and for a pistol it works but I think that's because I consider pistols a 25 yard or less gun with most of my shots being inside of 15 for almost anything I could use it with.

I’ve been researching the Vortex Spitfire 1x and Primary Arms 1x Compact prism. They seem to be what you’re looking for.

The spitfire was what I was looking at too... I didn't know Primary Arms made one. I kind of like the idea of the Primary Arms reticle better but I don't know how much the chevron would confuse my brain/slow me down as I've never used one. I guess it can't hurt to try though.

maybe a TA44?

I'll be honest the ACOG in any format makes me a little moist. I know they aren't the high speed low drag anymore because LPVs have taken over but a 1.5x won't be that much slower in close than a red dot and definitely helps extend the range a bit. I like the dot in a circle reticle too and I like that I can get it in green but I can't tell how big the dot is from their website. Plus ACOG eye relief is forgiving and the weight is really good. I wonder if I'd need the TA44-C with the lower mount height for the Scorpion. Looks like Primary Arms makes a model with the ACCS reticle... again I don't know how I feel about a chevron but maybe I can learn. This is my favorite option so far honestly aside from the price but I'm hoping I can get a deal on it for black friday.

Like others with astigmatism, I find precision with a RDS is somewhat compromised. Assuming defensive use with range to around 100 yards, the precision may still be more than adequate aiming with a "cluster of grapes" vs. a well-defined dot.

I experimented with the Leupold Prismastic, which had some advantages over the Aimpoints in terms of a well defined (etched) reticle and clarity of view, but with fixed eye-relief distance and more weight.

I experimented with three different LPV scopes (all in the $500 to $800 range). Definitely some advantages to them, but they all turned my "lightweight carbine" into a not-so-lightweight-anymore rifle. The last one I tried was the Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4X in a GG&G mount, weighing 17 ounces combined. That was a really nice set up but I just couldn't warm up to the reticle of the VX-R Patrol.

I am a HUGE fan of iron sights, but at my age I can no longer get both the front post and target in adequate focus to use them effectively beyond 100 yards or so. Very depressing... :-(

So, this leaves me in the same boat as you - the realization that I need an optic with an etched reticle and adjustable eyepiece for me to see both the target and aiming point with clarity. To achieve that with as little weight (and complication) as possible, I'm installing this scope and mount on my AR this week;

https://www.leupold.com/scopes/rimfi...light-2-5x20mm

https://danieldefense.com/components...uble-ring.html

Definitely not the latest Tactical Timmy set up, but at 12 ounces combined (and under $400 total) I think it will work. The scope just arrived and I very much like the view through it: crystal clear, a sharply focused duplex reticle, five inches of forgiving eye relief and two-eyes-open usable...and the scope weighs just 6.4 ounces! No variable power, no illuminated mil-dot reticle, no tactical turrets but I'm OK with that.

The DD mount arrives tomorrow and I'll be hitting the range this weekend. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this set up will work for this old guy as envisioned.

I feel your pain; I'm only 35 but I needed glasses since I was 8. They did the lasik on me in 2005 and I've been 20/20 since but some lights kind of starburst for me which I think is the issue with red dots. For a pistol or in close it's ok because as you've said I don't need a crisp dot to get hits on target but for anything outside of 25 yards it's a problem.

Definitely not the latest in the tactical timmy gear but if it works then it works. I don't think I'd like that reticle for me personally but I'm not sure. Hard to deny the eye relief and weight on that thing though.

Who cares if someone tells you it's overkill? What's the phrase "if it's stupid and it works, then it's not stupid" (or something like that)? I'd find a 1-4 you like, and if you never dial it off 1x, who cares?

Having said that, my 1-4 is a little more finicky about eye relief than an Aimpoint or Eotech. Something to be aware of but it wasn't a deal breaker for me. That and weight would be two drawbacks.

Yeah eye relief is going to be an issue regardless of where I go once I leave the world of true red dot / holographic sights. I guess the perk of it being a carbine is I'll have a decent enough cheek weld for the gun. The weight would be a bit of a turn off for me at a certain point but as you said if it works then it works and it's something I'll learn to live with.


Thank you for the suggestions and help everyone.

[NH Shooter]

Definitely not the latest in the tactical timmy gear but if it works then it works. I don't think I'd like that reticle for me personally but I'm not sure. Hard to deny the eye relief and weight on that thing though.

I prefer a simple reticle to the common tactical versions now common. Cool thing is that Leupold can change out the reticle for $120, this would be the one I'd roll with;





BTW, I also tried two ACOGs and had the same issue with both due to my crappy eyesight: the lack of a diopter (eyepiece) adjustment left the chevrons blurry. I also noticed the fiber optic would glow in the dark due to the tritium.

Shitty eyesight sucks.