Knife Use in an Entanglement

[Cecil Burch]

There are some people who advocate the use of a small fixed blade knife carried forward of the hips. For most of us - certainly those of us in the Shivworks Collective - we do so for specific reasons, and those reasons also drive the design of the Craig Douglas ClinchPick and how it should ideally be carried with the handle at a downward diagonal angle. One of the biggest drivers of this conceptual methodology is how effective it is in an entanglement, and how there are many opportunities where you can access this kind of blade when you cannot deploy any other weapon. Rather than try to describe this in words, here is a short video showing one glaring example of how this works. It is meant not as a dogmatic "this is the move to do", but instead it is a very plausible and useful example of how to implement the technique.

[jetfire]

There are some people who advocate the use of a small fixed blade knife carried forward of the hips. For most of us - certainly those of us in the Shivworks Collective - we do so for specific reasons, and those reasons also drive the design of the Craig Douglas ClinchPick and how it should ideally be carried with the handle at a downward diagonal angle. One of the biggest drivers of this conceptual methodology is how effective it is in an entanglement, and how there are many opportunities where you can access this kind of blade when you cannot deploy any other weapon. Rather than try to describe this in words, here is a short video showing one glaring example of how this works. It is meant not as a dogmatic "this is the move to do", but instead it is a very plausible and useful example of how to implement the technique.

What’s super interesting about this video to me is that I had almost this exact situation go down during ECQC in Florida this year; I was mounted by the other dude and losing, but I was able to get my knife off the belt from that exact position and lay some stabbing time onto him before he shot me. Would I have died IRL? Yeah, most likely. Would he have died too without immediate medical attention? Yep. That, for a number of reasons made me a huge believer in the small fixed blade knife for carry.

[wmb556]

Cecil, any thoughts on push dagger versus clinch pick in an entanglement? I would think the clinch pick, or any similar stabbing tool held the same way, would be preferred because it requires less space to employ effectively. The push dagger is great using a boxing methodology, but such striking becomes difficult in a clinch/FUT, particularly if your opponent has your back.


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[Duelist]

Cecil, any thoughts on push dagger versus clinch pick in an entanglement? I would think the clinch pick, or any similar stabbing tool held the same way, would be preferred because it requires less space to employ effectively. The push dagger is great using a boxing methodology, but such striking becomes difficult in a clinch/FUT, particularly if your opponent has your back.


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Why wouldn't you be able to carry and use a push dagger the same way? You don't *have* to punch with it. Wrist angle would only be slightly different, proximity would effectively do the same things.

[blues]

Why wouldn't you be able to carry and use a push dagger the same way? You don't *have* to punch with it. Wrist angle would only be slightly different, proximity would effectively do the same things.

Illegal in many locales. Of course, it's better to worry about legality after you survive a deadly encounter...but still...

[Duelist]

Illegal in many locales. Of course, it's better to worry about legality after you survive a deadly encounter...but still...

So is carrying any fixed blade knife, in some locales. I wasn't specifically referring to that, though. I was referring to the utility of use - implementation of the demonstrated technique with a different knife design.

[blues]

So is carrying any fixed blade knife, in some locales. I wasn't specifically referring to that, though. I was referring to the utility of use - implementation of the demonstrated technique with a different knife design.

Gotcha.

[Cecil Burch]

Cecil, any thoughts on push dagger versus clinch pick in an entanglement? I would think the clinch pick, or any similar stabbing tool held the same way, would be preferred because it requires less space to employ effectively. The push dagger is great using a boxing methodology, but such striking becomes difficult in a clinch/FUT, particularly if your opponent has your back.


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Exactly. The PD is at it's best in the same envelope as striking i.e. when you have room to make that punching motion. The CP works in tight when you don't have room.

I love PDs, but they are not interchangeable and don't fit the same in the entangled environment

[Cecil Burch]

Why wouldn't you be able to carry and use a push dagger the same way? You don't *have* to punch with it. Wrist angle would only be slightly different, proximity would effectively do the same things.

#1) it is impossible to carry a PD set up in a way that is equally accessible to either hand in a manner where you need little arm movement to deploy it

#2) Wrist angle in completely different. To get any penetration with the PD blade, you have to have it essentially aligned with the forearm as in a punching manner. If you tried to use a PD at the angle I do in the video with the CP, you would have zero strength to get in up and working in, and even if you did, the pressure on your wrist would cause it to collapse almost right away, even for someone with a strong grip and wrists. The space available would not allow it.

#3) to draw and deploy the PD would require a good deal more movement and elbow articulation, requiring more space and time to even get it into play. Very possible, but not the same at all.


None of this is to say the PD is no good. It is just a factual statement of important differences between the two knives. And this comes from someone who a) regularly carries a PD and loves it, and b) someone who spent a couple of years trying to set up a PD in a way that I would not have to use a CP. I was convinced I was smarter than Craig in this situation, and the CP offended the Filipino Martial Art nerd that was still living inside my head. I did not adopt the CP until a bit later when I wan unable to make the PD or another standard knife (a Bud Nealy Escort) work as well as the CP.

[Crusader8207]

#1) it is impossible to carry a PD set up in a way that is equally accessible to either hand in a manner where you need little arm movement to deploy it

#2) Wrist angle in completely different. To get any penetration with the PD blade, you have to have it essentially aligned with the forearm as in a punching manner. If you tried to use a PD at the angle I do in the video with the CP, you would have zero strength to get in up and working in, and even if you did, the pressure on your wrist would cause it to collapse almost right away, even for someone with a strong grip and wrists. The space available would not allow it.

#3) to draw and deploy the PD would require a good deal more movement and elbow articulation, requiring more space and time to even get it into play. Very possible, but not the same at all.


None of this is to say the PD is no good. It is just a factual statement of important differences between the two knives. And this comes from someone who a) regularly carries a PD and loves it, and b) someone who spent a couple of years trying to set up a PD in a way that I would not have to use a CP. I was convinced I was smarter than Craig in this situation, and the CP offended the Filipino Martial Art nerd that was still living inside my head. I did not adopt the CP until a bit later when I wan unable to make the PD or another standard knife (a Bud Nealy Escort) work as well as the CP.

How do you carry your PD? Do you carry both a PD and a CP at the same time?