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Thread: Oak Ridge TN

  1. #1

    Oak Ridge TN

    In July 2017 we went to the American Museum of Science and Energy (AMSE) in Oak Ridge. When I was stationed in Japan I was about an hour from Hiroshima and I've been to the Peace Park Museum there, and I saw the Enola Gay at an air show in Asheville some years ago, so going to Oak Ridge completed the atomic circle for me, so to speak, albeit in reverse order. I had known of the Manhattan Project, of course, but didn't know very much about the nuts and bolts of it. My wife's grandparents actually worked in Oak Ridge during the war and her aunt was elementary age and lived there. She said she remembered seeing a whole street of houses being put up in a day.

    The museum was fantastic. As a civil engineer I found the process of building a secret city in the middle of nowhere and building the uranium processing plants so quickly to be fascinating and incredible. I didn't know there were multiple processes running concurrently. What I found especially amazing was that those processes were being run to produce a fissile material for a bomb that no one really knew for sure would work. My dad was a Navy nuke and then worked in commercial power so I grew up around nuclear power, but this was obviously a completely different animal.

    My grandson studied WWII in history last year so we thought it would be cool to take him to AMSE since we were over that way on a quasi vacation. I google mapped AMSE and we hit the road. When we got there, it was in a different location, tacked on to the end of a shopping mall, and according to the map the previous location is now an apartment complex. (Evidently the old location was closed in 2018.) I thought "this isn't right" so I googled Manhattan Project and found the Manhattan Project National Historical Park and Children's Museum a few miles away. The Children's Museum has the prefab house, but it's being refurbished right now and not accessible. One of the National Park guys told us that AMSE is now devoted to modern energy related stuff and if we wanted to see actual Manhattan Project info, we needed to head to the K-25 History Center, about 10 miles away, so off we went again.

    The K-25 center had some of the displays that had been at AMSE regarding construction of the city but it was focused primarily on the K-25 (hence the name) gaseous diffusion facility and process. Very interesting and informative, but it only included a small fraction of what the old AMSE had. It was a still worthwhile trip but quite a letdown from what we were expecting and what we had told Elijah he was going to see. Granted we got there fairly late in the day, but there were only like 2 other visitors while we were there.

    All this is kvetching is mostly because I'm bumfuzzled that something so important to our country's history could be piecemealed and given so little floor space. Given what the Smithsonian has at so many other museums, (I especially love Air and Space) I would think they could put together an impressive Oak Ridge/ Manhattan Project museum. Maybe it's just too politically incorrect anymore, although we're probably closer to the nuclear brink now than at any time since the end of the cold war. More likely it's just not anyone's priority.

  2. #2
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    There is the Sandi Museum, though admittedly it isn't Oak Ridge focused.

    https://sstp.org/companies/national-...cience-history

  3. #3
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    Now that I'm looking, The National Museum of Nuclear Science and History also seems to have been shuffled around a bit. It used to be on Kirkland AFB, but it seems as if 9/11 caused it to get pushed off base.

    https://www.sandia.gov/labnews/2021/...ubank-by-9-11/

  4. #4
    Member SoCalDep's Avatar
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    The title of this thread caught my attention.

    Like many, World War II has been of interest to me throughout my life. At one time I (as an amateur) collected WWII firearms and items. My wife’s family is Jewish and some of them lived through the holocaust with the tattoos to prove it. From a young age I felt the need to do something with my life that was meaningful, and I always looked up to the generation who sacrificed so much for such a worthy cause.

    Around five or six years ago we made a plan, and Tennessee was the epicenter of that plan. It started with a simple “If you wanted to work for a gun company, where are they located”, and my response (after thinking about all the companies in places I wouldn’t want to go) was that Beretta had just moved to Gallatin, TN. My wife did some instagram and google voodoo and fell in love. Then after more research decided that East Tennessee, and the outer Knoxville area was more our speed. We were originally (around 2020 to early 2021) looking in Maryville, but a house caught her eye last year. It was/is an “Alphabet” house built during the Manhattan Project. It was “sold”, so my wife sort of used it as a standard that other houses would need to meet... but it came back on the market a couple months later and we ended up buying it.

    We moved last July and for the past twelve and a half months I’ve been back and forth finishing up work until I can retire... in one month and nine days.

    I knew there was a National Lab in Oak Ridge, but until my wife originally found the house I had no idea about the “secret city” history. I had actually looked at Oak Ridge because I thought it would have good potential for employment. When I learned about the history and the history of the Alphabet houses I was intrigued. A lot.

    Turns out even many people in East Tennessee don’t know the history of Oak Ridge. Our realtor from the Maryville area didn’t.

    So our house was originally a “C”, but it has had an addition added. I love it. What I also love is every first Wednesday of the month at noon, when they test the “oh shit we messed up with some nuke stuff” siren. I love the drive from Oak Ridge to Lenoir City off the 95 where there are tons of small side roads that lead places unknown except there are signs saying that one shouldn’t go if they don’t want some serious involvement with the government.

    I love waking through the neighborhoods where people lived in the days of the war, doing jobs they didn’t know would literally end the war. We often walk past the tennis courts where they held dances, and still do. We go to Jackson Square which was a social center, and we’ve been to the K-25 historic center and Children’s Museum. We haven’t been to the the AMSE yet, but we did go to the Museum of East Tennessee History in Knoxville and that is great! They have a bit of stuff on Oak Ridge as well.

    Bissell park has the international friendship bell and a walking tour with plaques that document the history of the city during the war and after. It’s not a flashy place, but it’s a neat documentation of history.

    Big Ed’s pizza is just down the street from Jackson square and quite close to our home. Since I have found that bread tends to mess with me I try to avoid pizza though I absolutely love it. We finally went a couple months ago and when we were seated towards the back of the restaurant I couldn’t help but notice the MASSIVE amount of stuff on the walls from USMC marksmanship teams, other shooting teams, military and cop stuff and gun stuff and sports stuff everywhere. Turns out the original Big Ed was a Sniper in WWII and had been very involved in the community. If you’re ever in Oak Ridge the pizza is fantastic and it’s worth going in to see the place.

    There are bus tours during the week as well that go to different WWII and modern national security sites, but we haven’t done that yet.

    Based on the original post in this thread I’m sad that I didn’t get to see the AMSE the way it was, but Oak Ridge is a bit more than a museum... there’s a bunch of this place (I say that and I’m over 2,000 miles away right now... ugh) that is... this place. If you know where to look and where to go you can see the guest houses where Oppenheimer and others stayed. You can see the guard shacks where they gated the city.

    That said, it still seems there is some secret to the “secret city” and I do feel like something so important to the WWII war effort should have more... Then I think maybe the lack of popularity is part of what is cool about it.

  5. #5
    @SoCalDep, thank you for adding all that local color. We were obviously very narrowly focused since we were only there for an afternoon. I had actually scored tickets for the secret city bus tour but I f'ed up in my haste and got them for the week after we were there. Next time...

  6. #6
    Site Supporter rdtompki's Avatar
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    Priceless posts. Thanks.

  7. #7
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTQ View Post
    Now that I'm looking, The National Museum of Nuclear Science and History also seems to have been shuffled around a bit. It used to be on Kirkland AFB, but it seems as if 9/11 caused it to get pushed off base.

    https://www.sandia.gov/labnews/2021/...ubank-by-9-11/
    Well, it kinda is, entrance is on the East side, just off Eubank when we were there a couple years ago. Cool place, for sure.

  8. #8
    Frequent DG Adventurer fatdog's Avatar
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    December '21 I went to all three museum sites in Oak Ridge in an afternoon and I thought the displays were well done at all three, but why not one big one at a single site.

    Like you, it seemed like a light touch for the entire subject. If I had not taken the time to visit all three including the converted grocery store and the small building near vacant field that used to be the gaseous diffusion plant, I would not have had the complete picture.

    My assumption had been that the DOE/AEC hold the strings on the whole thing and they are incapable of giving it the polished historical treatment, but then I learned that the NPS was running it, and I was very disappointed. They could do better.

    I have to assume politics played a role in the limited treatment the place gets, funding or bureaucratic administration preferences or both.
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  9. #9
    Site Supporter HeavyDuty's Avatar
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    I need to check Oak Ridge out. Growing up in Chicago I had a lot of past and present nuclear physics sites around; more than once I picnicked on top of the buried pile in the forest preserve and lunch with a physicist friend in his office on the ring at Fermilab was a regular thing.

    This interests me.
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  10. #10
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    A side light to this thread, we had the holster maker Secret City Weaponeers and their K-25 holster

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ity-Weaponeers

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