Target focus shooting

[Clobbersaurus]

I would NOT teach a new shooter to do this. Strict front sight focus unless if they have eye issues that prevent it.

I agree with this. There are many concepts best left unsaid to new shooters.

[BehindBlueI's]

Shoot it blind. Seriously.

You are a good shooter. You have figured out your natural point of aim and index. You've likely shot that exact drill bajillions of times. You don't need the sights for that shot any more than you need to look at your hands to guide a fork of food to your mouth or look at your car's turn signal lever to activate it. Your awareness of where your body is and what it's doing has progressed beyond the need for visual references in those tasks.

To check my index and natural point of aim, I'll shoot an 8" circle at 5y blind. It was actually my dry fire drill for today. Draw, then visually verify the sights are aligned on the circle. It's something I modified from rifle training where we were taught to verify our natural point of aim and just figured would probably work with a handgun as well.

Set up just like you did in the video, stance correct, etc. then shoot it with your eyes closed. Now shoot it with a "target focus" with your stance broken. One foot on a box like you are on stairs. Seated and slightly twisted like you're in a car shooting out, etc. Now shoot it with a front sight focus with the unorthodox stances.

I suspect what you'll find is that when you're able to make better hits then you'd think with zero visual reference, but also that once you can't "set up" and have the rest of your body mechanics how you want then you'll do worse with target focus then front sight focus. In Simunition courses I've definitely noticed I can get by with a target focus if I can "set up", even out to 25y. However front sight focus works more consistently over a variety of situations when I have to shoot from a "broken" stance.

[GJM]

Not sure. My dot failed, as in died, 2/3 of the way through the last stage at a USPSA match Saturday, and I shot with no dot or BUIS getting mostly A hits and perhaps one or two C hits. That was pure target focus.

[GJM]

Let me add to my comments above.

I think that index, which is a function of stance and grip, is foundational. Isolating the trigger, trigger control and allowing recoil to happen is where almost all shots are made or missed. Sight alignment and sight focus falls into the art part of shooting, and is a function of shooter experience, ability and technique.

Nobody is going to go wrong with hard front sight focus. However, target focus allows the potential for better speed, and may be more natural, since we want to look at what we are shooting at. After the steel match today, messing around with target focus, I shot Smoke and Hope in 2.01 which is really good for me.

[MGW]

Random thoughts about my vision and shooting.

I’ve screwed up a lot of trigger presses by focusing hard on the front sight. Waiting for a perfect sight picture creates a lot of tension and makes it easy to have now syndrome.

I have really struggled in the past shooting plate racks. Once in awhile everything will come together and I’ll have a really good run. What I realize when I’m done is that I wasn’t really focusing on the front sight but I was aware that it was there during each shot.

When I first started shooting bullseye with my dad as a kid I shot target focus. No one told me to focus on the front sight and this is what I thought I was supposed to do. It just made sense to me to have the target in clear focus because that’s where I wanted the bullets to go. I could shoot really good groups then. Much better than I can now.

My eye sight has deteriorated significantly over the last two years. I’ve always had 20/15 vision and now my eye doctor is suggesting I switch to bifocals. I still test 20/20 for distance vision but the correction I need for reading screws up my distance vision.

I’ve also noticed that I’m having a harder time tracking a thin fiber front sight regardless of where my focus is. In really bright sunlight I’m usually okay but struggle in lower light conditions. Orange Ameriglos work really well for me now. I’m faster with them but I give up a bit of precision because of the width. I would really like to experiment with some nonprescription glasses with different lense colors. I’m not ready to give up on fiber sights yet.

I know Stoeger talked about trying different lense colors and liked the results. Has anyone else tried this and if so what were your results? What color/coating was your favorite?

[GuanoLoco]

Ask him how his guns are zeroed, the tip of a front sight or the dot. If he is 100% front focused, does it mean that he doesn't zero his guns at a tip of the front sight?

FYI he thought he answered this in the podcast, and would be happy to get Q’s for his podcast.

Basically, all he did was stop dulling his fiber with a sharpie. He still uses the top of the front sight when useful, but is finding the somewhat blurry front (and rear) sigths adequate even for distance shots.

2 more days of classes to go - my knees are swelling but my sense of humor is excellent.

[TCFD273]

I have historically shot iron sights with a front sight focus. As you get older, your eyes don’t shift focus as quickly between two distances like front sight and target, and where I used to be able to tell you how many serrations were on my Heinie front sight, I can no longer do that. A red dot allows me to keep a target focus and has been faster and more accurate than iron sights.

Two days ago, I went from shooting my Glock with a DP Pro to a G45 with iron sights. Without realizing it, I started shooting it with a target focus, and was surprisingly fast and accurate. That included shooting eight inch steel out to 20 yards.

Yesterday, after shooting the dot, I experimented with it it some more and continued to be impressed, with my times faster than my red dot times on a number of drills. Here is an example of such a drill.



Later, I was able to shoot Bill drills at 15 yards in the 2.20 range with just one C, which I haven’t been able to do with a dot. I have read that Ben Stoeger shoots target focused out to 25 yards.

Have you messed around with target focused shooting to further distances and what have you experienced?

I grew up a serious bird hunter and regularly competed in Sporting Clays and FITASC. I still shoot clays 1-2 times a month, I attend 5-6 pigeon shoots a year, and an annual trip to Argentina for doves.

I have always shot pistols with target focus probably out to 25 or so because it’s so ingrained in my shooting. I’ve tried hard front sight focus, but it’s never worked for me.

This was 2/18. 3100 shells by the end of the day. This is what I mean by target focus being ingrained in my shooting. Haha




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[JHC]

I grew up a serious bird hunter and regularly competed in Sporting Clays and FITASC. I still shoot clays 1-2 times a month, I attend 5-6 pigeon shoots a year, and an annual trip to Argentina for doves.

I have always shot pistols with target focus probably out to 25 or so because it’s so ingrained in my shooting. I’ve tried hard front sight focus, but it’s never worked for me.

This was 2/18. 3100 shells by the end of the day. This is what I mean by target focus being ingrained in my shooting. Haha




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That's incredible! What were you shooting at all day? Clays or live game?

[TCFD273]

That's incredible! What were you shooting at all day? Clays or live game?

That was Dove’s in Argentina. I’ve shot 4327 28ga shells in a single day in Argentina, I was definitely feeling it the next several days. Haha

I typically bring 2 guns and rotate through them. I have a video of this, rotating through guns, but I can’t figure out how to post it.


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[P.E. Kelley]

Shoot it blind. Seriously.

You are a good shooter. You have figured out your natural point of aim and index. You've likely shot that exact drill bajillions of times. You don't need the sights for that shot any more than you need to look at your hands to guide a fork of food to your mouth or look at your car's turn signal lever to activate it. Your awareness of where your body is and what it's doing has progressed beyond the need for visual references in those tasks.

To check my index and natural point of aim, I'll shoot an 8" circle at 5y blind. It was actually my dry fire drill for today. Draw, then visually verify the sights are aligned on the circle. It's something I modified from rifle training where we were taught to verify our natural point of aim and just figured would probably work with a handgun as well.

Set up just like you did in the video, stance correct, etc. then shoot it with your eyes closed. Now shoot it with a "target focus" with your stance broken. One foot on a box like you are on stairs. Seated and slightly twisted like you're in a car shooting out, etc. Now shoot it with a front sight focus with the unorthodox stances.

I suspect what you'll find is that when you're able to make better hits then you'd think with zero visual reference, but also that once you can't "set up" and have the rest of your body mechanics how you want then you'll do worse with target focus then front sight focus. In Simunition courses I've definitely noticed I can get by with a target focus if I can "set up", even out to 25y. However front sight focus works more consistently over a variety of situations when I have to shoot from a "broken" stance.

To your point sir,

Around the 4:00 mark.