Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: BUIS - Cowitness

  1. #1

    BUIS - Cowitness

    Most pistols and carbines with battery powered red dot sights have iron sights for use if the dot goes out.

    Question: Has your dot ever gone out such that you had to finish shooting the gunfight, match, or regimented training with the iron sights?

    A friend has no iron sights on his main gun used for match and carry. He figures that if the light fails, his well practiced index to see the dot immediately upon the draw will let him frame an assailant in the window well enough for drastic emergency defense.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  2. #2
    From a relatively short personal experience and from talking to people around, every high volume shooter that I talked to and who uses a Deltapoint had to finish something at some point without a dot working. In my case, two training sessions. I was also quite displeased with type 2 RMR's auto - adjust, when the dot was working but washed out.


    I continue to run the game gun without irons, mainly because it is PITA to get a correct height sight for DPP. My carry guns have RMRs on and all have backup irons. I am a little less conventional in that I dont use suppressor height sights on some of my setups but I do have iron sights available to me on all non game pistols.
    Last edited by YVK; 10-28-2018 at 02:58 PM.
    “Well," said Pooh, "what I like best," and then he had to stop and think. Because although Eating Honey was a very good thing to do, there was a moment just before you began to eat it which was better than when you were, but he didn't know what it was called.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    TEXAS !
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
    Most pistols and carbines with battery powered red dot sights have iron sights for use if the dot goes out.

    Question: Has your dot ever gone out such that you had to finish shooting the gunfight, match, or regimented training with the iron sights?

    A friend has no iron sights on his main gun used for match and carry. He figures that if the light fails, his well practiced index to see the dot immediately upon the draw will let him frame an assailant in the window well enough for drastic emergency defense.
    I’ve had Dots fail on carbines necessitating transition to iron sights. Carbines usually have BUIS or a laser which serves as a secondary sight system.

    I can see the window of an RMR working at short ranges but I would not let LEOs carry an RDS pistol without BUIS - you never know what your fight is going to be.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Centeral US
    I'm currently faced with this same question. I've got a Glk 19 MOS, and just bought a Vortex Venom RD for it. I'm going to run the rig in the Carry Optics division USPSA/IDPA. I'm leaning toward installing suppressor height sights, hoping the co-witness of the irons and dot will help me find the dot quickly. Can anyone here shed some light on this? I'd use black sights of course. Thanks!
    Gandalf

  5. #5
    Opinions are divided for competition use. Some say that, since optics is all about index, just go bare and clean up your presentation. On the other hand, I know very strong CO guys who had custom front sights made to use in USPSA with their DPPs.
    I don't use irons on my game slide, mainly because I don't understand how front sight focus can help with a target focused technique. To me the irons here are exactly what the thread title is about - a backup. For competition they don't tip the scale of beneficial/detrimental for my preferences.
    “Well," said Pooh, "what I like best," and then he had to stop and think. Because although Eating Honey was a very good thing to do, there was a moment just before you began to eat it which was better than when you were, but he didn't know what it was called.

  6. #6
    Member Coyotesfan97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Phoenix Metro, AZ
    Our rifle qualification has a moving and shooting stage from 15 yards to 3 where the Aimpoint is turned off. I use the tube to center on the target. It works at those distances.
    Last edited by Coyotesfan97; 10-30-2018 at 12:36 AM.
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.* Thucydides 471BC

    "Hey! Let's be careful out there." Sgt Phil Esterhaus played by Michael Conrad

  7. #7
    Site Supporter jwperry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Polk County, FL
    This thread is timely as I'm ready to send off another pistol to get milled for a red dot, but I've been debating if I want to invest in the co-witness sights again. On the red dot pistols I've shot, they've either had co-witness sights or no sights at all.

    So my question is, are 'standard' height sights a viable option with an RMR? I feel that on my milled G19, the co-witness sights don't occlude the viewing window enough to be distracting but on my preferred platform, P229, they do. I'd rather not have something to pull my focus from the target (which I can actually focus on) to arms' length which is all kind of fuzzy. Plus the suppressor sights shoot super low (like 8" at 15y) so not real useful IMO.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Pascagoula, MS
    In a couple of years running RMR equipped glocks, I have never had any issue with the dot going down. This while shooting classes in rain, shooting in snow, all ranges of temps, and carrying daily AIWB (no internet legend "lint" failures). I do have suppressor height sights on each of mine. I found that the sights actually helped in acquiring the dot at first. Now, I pretty much don't notice the sights. YMMV.

  9. #9
    Foppish Dandy Darth_Uno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    STL
    Don't know about the Sig, but on Glocks standard sights won't clear the RMR by much or at all, so you may as well not have them.

    The reason cowitness sights hit low is that most are .315" front and rear, while standard sights usually have a shorter front sight than rear (.245/.215, as an example). Why they don't make cowitness sights like this I don't know. Originally .315", on Glocks at least, was reserved for suppressor sights, and it was discovered that they can cowitness with an RMR. I suppose nobody has seen the need to change. Now as you get higher over the bore you need less of a variation, but I'd like to see .330 rear with a .315 front.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter Norville's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    WI
    I have had 2 RMRs and 2 DPP go bad on me in two seasons of CO. Lucky for me all were in practice. No BUIS on the game guns, suppressor height on the RMR carry G17. Actually just picked up a milled DPP from an vendor on close out and had the front sight installed as I had a Leupold rear in the parts box. That works ok but front is much higher Than with an RMR.

    Never had an issue on a long gun, rifle or shotgun exclusively with Aimpoints.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •