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Thread: Remington 870 QC Issues?

  1. #1

    Remington 870 QC Issues?

    Common knowledge here is that buying an older 870 and refurbishing it is a better option then buying a new Remington 870. When did Remington's QC erode to the point that older is better? 1990's? 2000's?

  2. #2
    Remington was bought out in 2007 by Cerberus.

  3. #3
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    I bought my 870 Express new in 1999 (or 2000, can't recall exactly). I used it for 15 years as a trap/skeet/small-game/turkey gun. Not once in that time did I experience any issues. Once I decided to change its mission from sport to home defense, I went through the gun and replaced all the bits deemed "problematic" by the Internet and installed an aftermarket 18" barrel (first a Mossberg, later 870 with sights). Still no issues and the gun continues to run.

    I don't know exactly how many rounds are through the gun, but I've burned through enough cases of ammo in addition to smaller volumes of premium ammo to guess I have somewhere north of 2k rounds. Not "high volume" per se, but enough to expose any obvious issues.

    So, to my mind, Yr2000 (and presumably older) is "safe".

    Chris

  4. #4
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    I don't actually know the answer, but I'd guess early 2000's.

    IIRC, 2003 was the last year that Remington turned a profit. In 2004-2006, they ran in the red, prior to being acquired by Freedom Group in 2007. Seems to me there's a lot of incentive to cut corners when your company isn't making any money.

    FWIW, my 1994 870P was great. My 2007 870P was a train wreck, but some of the deficiencies might have been from someone at the original owning agency swapping parts before they sold it off.

    I'm interested to know what our LE members have observed.

  5. #5
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    I have an 870 built in about 2001 (maybe 2002) that has exhibited no issues thus far.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  6. #6
    I have owned both a 2008-2009 870 express, as well as just bought a new 870P.

    I had no issues with rust or function with the 870 express despite the forum discussions about them. In fact, I liked it so much I bought the 870P to replace it (sold the express for an AR in 2016).

    I will report back after I get the 870P to the range, but fit and finish is good or better than any shotgun I have seen recently.

    One caveat to my statement about the express is that I did steel wool the barrel per AIP Tactical standards. Not sure if it was necessary but I did it just in case. I have not done this on my 870P so it will be interesting to see what happens.

    PS, send me a PM if we have met before Tabasco.

  7. #7
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    I bought my Express in the early 00's. It was already cursed with the polymer trigger guard, the MIM extractor, and the sub-par finish. Here's my rundown of Remington's history on the models as best I know it from research and personal experience. Anyone with additional information is welcome to offer additions or corrections.

    Remington introduced the Express line in the late 80's. When it was introduced, the Express was made the same way as the Wingmaster. The major parts were machined the same way, the receivers were vibra-honed, etc. They didn't perform final exterior polishing necessary to put on the shiny blued finish the Wingmaster was known for. Instead, they parkerized the metal and they used plainer wood furniture. I'm familiar with these guns because I grew up using one. My dad bought one in the late 80's or very early 90's and I killed more than a few critters with it. These guns are most easily recognized by the parkerized finish and a metal trigger guard. (Keep that in mind...we'll see these items again) I'll try to get hold of my dad's Express to get some pictures of it.

    Sometime in the late 90's or early 00's, Remington made changes to the Express model that we have come to know and hate. They stopped vibra-honing the receivers, started using MIM'd parts like the extractor and various other parts in the trigger group, used a polymer trigger guard, and finished the gun with a simpler "matte blue" finish which is rough as fuck and doesn't hold up. This is where I bought in because I figured I should get an 870 and my experience with dad's 870 Express made me think it was a good option.

    My gun worked...but I only fired maybe two or three boxes of shells through it in the decade that followed.

    At this point Remington was forced to establish a separate Police line because departments were buying the Express guns as they always had and found that the degradation in the quality of the product was unsustainable for a duty gun. So the Police model was introduced which kept the tool-steel extractor, the vibra-honing of the receiver, the cheaper wood (or polymer furniture), the metal trigger group (which didn't have MIM parts in it) and a parkerized finish. In other words, the 870 Police guns were made like the original Express guns were.

    In the late 2000's, Remington was bought out by Cerberus. This is when they started to cut the Express guns to the absolute quick...the finish got even shittier (this is mainly where the corrosion issues come from) and they stopped doing things like making sure the chamber was sufficiently polished that it would reliably extract shells. The QC got bad enough that they were missing steps altogether. I've had guns come through class that didn't have an ejector installed properly.

    If you can get your hands on one of the parkerized Express guns (and there are a bunch out there) it's a superb shotgun.
    Last edited by TCinVA; 10-31-2018 at 07:36 AM.
    3/15/2016

  8. #8
    ^^Great post - I will keep my eyes out for an older Express, or a newer Police model, if I ever get the urge to add a Rem870 to my collection...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    polymer trigger guard...the metal trigger group (which didn't have MIM parts in it)
    Is there a specific issue with the polymer trigger guard or is it just preference. I haven't been able to find any particular problems reported about the plastic trigger guard and mine seems pretty durable, so I left it in place. Also, regarding the 2nd statement, does that mean the guns with the polymer trigger assembly have MIM parts within the assembly or does that just mean the polymer trigger assembly goes along with MIM parts such as the extractor? Asking because I've never noticed anyone calling out other MIM parts in the 870 before.

    the finish got even shittier (this is mainly where the corrosion issues come from)
    I'm not a duck hunter, so mine never got used in truly wet environments, but as an upland field gun and sporting (clay games) tool, it never had corrosion issues. The only spot of rust is where I was carrying it by the receiver, slipped on a wet rock, and slammed it down on a rock, dinging the side. There's a touch of rust in that dinged spot. It's been there for 13 years and hasn't changed. That might have been the last time it was used for hunting (gave up turkey hunting around that time and switched to rimfire or 20g SxS for small game).

    Chris

  10. #10
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkr View Post
    Is there a specific issue with the polymer trigger guard or is it just preference. I haven't been able to find any particular problems reported about the plastic trigger guard and mine seems pretty durable, so I left it in place. Also, regarding the 2nd statement, does that mean the guns with the polymer trigger assembly have MIM parts within the assembly or does that just mean the polymer trigger assembly goes along with MIM parts such as the extractor?
    The polymer trigger guard goes along with MIM'd parts like hammer and carrier dog, or at least that used to be the standard. The Police spec trigger group also has a stronger carrier dog spring and sear spring in it to reduce the chances of an unintentional discharge should the gun suffer an impact with a round chambered.

    The actual durability of the trigger guard itself is an open question. Some argue it's more durable than the aluminum ones.

    I'm not sure if a current production (as in made in the last couple of years) 870P has the polymer trigger guard or not. They didn't used to, but they may now use the polymer trigger guard with proper police spec parts. Or they may have cheaped out again and just use the same trigger group in all of them.

    What I can say is that Brownell's sells a Remington 870P trigger group that is parkerized:

    https://www.brownells.com/shotgun-pa...prod26466.aspx

    ...which I assume is the current standard for Remington Police spec guns.

    I'm not a duck hunter, so mine never got used in truly wet environments, but as an upland field gun and sporting (clay games) tool, it never had corrosion issues. The only spot of rust is where I was carrying it by the receiver, slipped on a wet rock, and slammed it down on a rock, dinging the side. There's a touch of rust in that dinged spot. It's been there for 13 years and hasn't changed. That might have been the last time it was used for hunting (gave up turkey hunting around that time and switched to rimfire or 20g SxS for small game).

    Chris
    The corrosion issues, at least as best I can tell, started in earnest after the post-Cerebus cheapening of the Express guns. The finish on my gun didn't rust, but it was thin and shitty. So thin that with only a relatively low level of use the receiver had enough damage to the finish that you could see silver through it in lots of places. I had it refinished with Cerakote which is wearing much better.
    Last edited by TCinVA; 10-31-2018 at 10:59 AM.
    3/15/2016

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