Managing Unknown Dogs MUD

[Doc_Glock]

I wanted to start a thread of best practices when managing interactions with unknown dogs as this seems to be my most frequent type of encounter while out and about.

I am on the trails a lot and going through my mental catalogue, have been chased/approached by a lot of barky dogs. Many were extremely large and dangerous breeds in the 100+ lb range. It is probably my most frequent animal encounter.

So what are best practices in dealing with these animals? I have never encountered a feral dog, just ones whose owners are between 10-100 yards away. My goal is to disengage with the animal and prevent it from biting one of my kids who are frequently with me on trail. This is not as great a concern as a few years back when the toddlers were eye level with teeth.

I have seen kids with faces bitten, and lots of folks with serious consequences from bitten hands and I just don’t think a dog bite is no big deal. However, most of the hand bite cases (nearly 100%) they were owners attempting to break up a dogfight.
@GJM pointed out that shooting or injuring a dog can have serious negative and unintended consequences, the Harold Fish case comes to mind, as his shooting of a human, followed by arrest and prisong time was preceded by a negative and possibly poorly managed dog interaction.

Here are his comments from a non public thread.

...... is very dog friendly, and virtually every dog is off leash. Hiking around ........, if I drew on every dog that exhibited that behavior you experienced, charging towards me or my dog, I would have my pistol out nearly daily. My wife and I routinely confront dogs acting like you experienced by stepping forward and telling the dog to stop right there. That, would be followed by our plan B of kicking the dog.

Shooting a dog on an area hiking trail, short of it viciously biting you, continuing to bite you, and not responding to kicks, would be career ending there. It might also result in the owner pulling a gun on you. It certainly would involve local law enforcement. Even pulling a gun without shooting would likely be problematic. You are probably familiar with the Harold Fish case in AZ.

In terms of MUD, or managing unknown dogs, I don’t think there is a perfect answer. On one hand you have the possibility of receiving a bad or worse bite. On the other hand, you may potentially incite a conflict with the dog’s owner, have a civil or criminal problem, or take a big hit to your reputation.

The situation matters a lot. Some wild dog attacking you in a wilderness setting without an owner is very different from a near town setting, where almost all dogs are off leash. There is also a difference between whether you can legally shoot a dog vs whether you must shoot a dog. Near town, my wife and I have decided that we are not going to guns unless we have been bitten, kicking is ineffective, and the firearm is the last option available. For us, that strikes a balance between the various competing interests. You will have to make your own analysis.

Maybe you need to do a ride along with a UPS man and get some of their experience!

[HCountyGuy]

One big thing is learning how to read a dog’s body language. In my experience and observations they act a lot different when they’re running up to bite you versus letting you know they’re there and being territorial (whether of their yard or human charges).

As for dealing with them, it’s about as unpredictable as dealing with humans at times. Some may back off with firm posturing and asserting yourself, others may require force (from pepper spray to strikes, knife or a gun). I’ve dealt with most dogs simply by effective posturing and letting them know I’m a bit higher on the pecking list than they want to try.

Ironically, most problematic pooches are those yappy little ankle-biters who think they’re a lot bigger and meaner than they really are. Usually the big dogs I’ve come across are more prone to lick or force you to pet them to death.

[Tabasco]

Someone on this forum (Hambo?), and an acquaintance of mine who rides street bikes a lot mentioned air horns as a deterrent. I have yet to try it, but keep one handy on walks, etc.

[BehindBlueI's]

Someone on this forum (Hambo?), and an acquaintance of mine who rides street bikes a lot mentioned air horns as a deterrent. I have yet to try it, but keep one handy on walks, etc.

I've mentioned it, although I don't know if it was here or not. An airhorn in a water bottle holder became my bike riding choice after I learned how difficult it is to effectively use pepper spray from a bike at speed.

[Casual Friday]

There's a nice walking trail near where I live and I've encountered several dogs over the years that acted aggressively. Some with owners off leash, some with no person present. My SOP when confronted by an aggressive dog, not just one that is barking but is actually showing signs of biting, is to yell at it first. If that doesn't work and it gets within striking distance, boot them in the snout. If that doesn't work and it keeps coming, shoot it. I've had several phase one and a few phase two encounters, none have progressed to phase three.

[willie]

A staff or long walking stick would be one defense to discourage Fido. Pepper spray would be good too. Some say not to make direct eye contact.

[HCM]

As the OP noted most hand bites are from owners improperly trying to break up dog fights. If you have two people drag them Apart by the rear legs. If your are by yourself a stick seems to work best. .

Regarding kids being bitten in the face, this stems from dogs nipping puppies on the snout when they act inappropriately. At least some of these bites with kids are the result of bad behavior on the kids part. The kids fail to understand the dog is a living thing that feels pain and/or the parents failing to correct the kids. I’ve seen kids intentionally poke dogs in the eye and hit dogs with sticks and then act surprised at the results.

[Clusterfrack]

Good thread topic. I've had more encounters with aggressive dogs than I can count, both here and abroad. A few things I've learned:

Don't start a fight unless you need to. Keeping calm, but confident can deescalate with aggressive dogs.

"No." "Go home." "Bad dog." "Sit." have all worked for me on some aggressive dogs. Make it a command, not a panicked yell.

Watch the owner for clues. 1) If the owner looks panicked and afraid of what their dog might do, that's a bad sign. 2) If the owner looks happy that their dogs are going to aggress on you, that's also a really bad sign. Get ready for escalation and use of force.

"Call your dogs. Don't make me shoot your dogs." has worked for me in scenario 2 above.

Keep your hands closed and away from the dog unless you are attacking. You don't want to get bit and lose fingers.

OC spray may or may not work. Based on experience I do not count on OC as a reliable canine countermeasure. The best effect I have had with OC was spraying it on the dogs butthole when it was attacking my dog. Aggressor stopped fighting right away and chased its tail.

Multiple dogs are fucking scary. Get ready for a fight for your life. Impact weapons (heavy flashlight, stick, or small shovel) have worked well for me. Also wrapping cloth around the biting dogs face works very well.

Do not underestimate medium sized dogs.

I saw one guy pry a pitbull's jaws off a dying dog by sticking his fingers ALL the way up its nose.

Looking forward to more wisdom in this thread...

[EVP]

I am looking forward to hearing from others as well as I hope some LEOs comment because they have probably have had many interactions with hostile dogs.


For me dogs are the reason I carry a fixed blade knife, not really for defense from humans.

In the past I have had dogs run up on me. I have always been able to deter them and what not. But now I have little ones and if a dog ran up and was being aggressive I have always thought about blocking the dog from my family by putting myself in between and if the dog started to attack I would go primal with the blade.

[HCM]

I am looking forward to hearing from others as well as I hope some LEOs comment because they have probably have had many interactions with hostile dogs.


For me dogs are the reason I carry a fixed blade knife, not really for defense from humans.

In the past I have had dogs run up on me. I have always been able to deter them and what not. But now I have little ones and if a dog ran up and was being aggressive I have always thought about blocking the dog from my family by putting myself in between and if the dog started to attack I would go primal with the blade.

I would re-iterate Clusterfrack’s comments about reading the owners.

The last Dog shooting we had involved a person intentionally “siccing” two Rottweilers on us because we were arresting a family member for child sex abuse (second offense). Worth noting that it was only necessary to shoot one dog. The other got the message and changed behavior immediately after seeing what happened to his partner.

We arrested the family member for ADW but charges were declined by the prosecutor.

Some of my co-workers had the same situation, mom intentionally siccing two dogs on Officers because they were there to arrest her adult son. Ironically this also involved two Rottweilers and a suspect with a history of child sexual abuse.

I’ve been able to handle most dogs with posturing. With regard to OC, IME the mist works better than the stream as a deterrent.