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Thread: Sanctuary State laws

  1. #1
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Sanctuary State laws

    I'm hoping for some input from our LEOs. I am trying to decide whether to vote for or against an Oregon initiative that would repeal the sanctuary state law.

    Are Sanctuary State laws that prevent local LEO cooperation with federal immigration enforcement helpful in law enforcement? Would repealing a sanctuary state law make your job harder?
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  2. #2
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    I'm a federal agent, but I'm not immigration. I have no authority to enforce immigration laws.

    My agency investigates and enforces laws that have a strong nexus to illegal immigration. I've dealt with illegal immigrants not only as subjects, but also victims and witnesses.

    I noticed a strong correlation, in my experience, that if they're legitimately a victim or witness then they'll talk to me just the same as anyone else, because they are witness/victimized and want to share it. It's gotta be some sort of psychological thing, people just have to talk about what they've seen. I even had no trouble talking to IA parents that were technically subjects to a crime, but also victims because they had been ripped off. All of the people involved, even an ethical immigration attorney (rare) all thought I had the power to singlehandedly arrest and deport them, even though I didn't.

    A good story to hear that validates what I had observed is a feature on NPR's This American Life called "ICEcapades", and how an HSI agent who DOES have immigration authorities had still earned the title of "Don" in an IA neighborhood. His feature starts about 2/3 of the way through that podcast.

    They won't answer their door if you're canvassing a neighborhood and they're not directly involved, however, for the same reason people in bad neighborhoods won't: Don't get involved in shit that you're not involved in.

    I understand that other LEOs experiences might be different.

    I'd also look at the extent of the Sanctuary Laws, and whether they actually have the impact people are claiming. In most jurisdictions, it's not like local cops were purposely rounding up illegals in some violent manner as proponents are envisioning. Sanctuary laws, in most cases and in practice, really only prevent LEOs from reporting an IA's arrest to ICE so that ICE can come get them. These are people that are already being processed for crimes......not people that cops need to make friends with as part of some community policing initiative. The IAs want them out of their neighborhoods too, because IA-on-IA crime is huge.

    So, between that and my experience, I'm fairly strongly opposed to Sanctuary Laws.
    Last edited by TGS; 10-26-2018 at 03:26 PM.
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  3. #3
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post

    So, between that and my experience, I'm fairly strongly opposed to Sanctuary Laws.

    I'm against them as well, but since I was on the federal side, (but never worked immigration cases), I think this question falls to state and local LEOs more than guys on our side of the fence, T.
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  4. #4
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I'm hoping for some input from our LEOs. I am trying to decide whether to vote for or against an Oregon initiative that would repeal the sanctuary state law.

    Are Sanctuary State laws that prevent local LEO cooperation with federal immigration enforcement helpful in law enforcement? Would repealing a sanctuary state law make your job harder?
    No.

    Honestly, most of us at the state and local level feel we have enough to do without doing immigration enforcement for the feds. It's simply not our job. If they're criminals there are plenty of things to hook them up for other than immigrant status. It's also a drain on our resources when we bring them in, house them at local jails, only to have the feds decline taking action. Then, our agency is on the hook for any kind of medical issues that arise during incarceration, the local sheriff is on the hook for feeding and housing them, etc.
    Last edited by Trooper224; 10-26-2018 at 04:02 PM.
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  5. #5
    Supporting Business CS Tactical's Avatar
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    Not a LEO but grew up with one that worked a major city that had those laws when he was active and he was disgusted by the Sanctuary City laws of his city.
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  6. #6
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    I spent a few years in a border town as a cop.

    Victims are victims. They call because they want help.

    What used to piss me off was the hoops that INS and Border Parol had to jump through to enforce the law. I got called to a domestic, and we were in the process of clearing the call, no crimes committed that we could enforce. As we were leaving the male began yelling and slamming the victim's head into a wall, denting the drywall. Arrest was made. Referred the suspect to INS/BP. Under the rules at the time a person could not be deported unless any and all jurisdictions were done with them. So plead guilty to Domestic Violence, and get sentenced to 364 days probation, and INS/BP couldn't touch you, because you were under supervision of a court that had jurisdiction. Plenty of time to change states, particularly if your supervision is unsupervised (basically, don't show up on a court docket during your probationary period and your charges will be dismissed.) Actual felonies, plus DWI and Domestic Violence, which in this state tend to be misdemeanors, but were considered felonies for the purpose of deportation, and a five year probation meant that the five years had to be served BEFORE INS proceedings could even be started. If you were being punished by a court for criminal behavior you had a pass from federal immigration authoritites.

    We started giving drivers licenses to illegals with the thought that "if they are willing to comply with licensing they will comply with registration and insurance reqirements"... wanna guess how that turned out?. Every ticket pled guilty to lead to a free pass to stay in the US another 3-6 months before preceedings on federal charges could even be started. And in my experience, the only illegals I can recall who were current with licensing, registration and insurance on a traffic stop were those who were already in the immigration and naturalisation process. They, of course, got every consideration and opportunity to have charges dismissed because they were trying to follow the rules. Those that weren't in the process tried to call me racist in an attempt to get me to change my decisions.

    What does it cost a jail to give an office to ICE in order to process and deport criminals? Don't even deport them on the first arrest, maybe the arrest after their second or third conviction? Where they have had an opportunity to consider their violations and change their behavior? This sactuary city BS is a political stunt...can we legitimise certian crimes and criminals? If you come to the US illegally and pay your taxes and keep you nose clean criminally you might just deserve an opportunity to stay here legally if you meet certain conditions. DWI, domestic violence, and felonies are crimes, and we have laws on the books to address them...they are often mistakes, but how many mistakes result in drastic, life changing conequences? Many of them do. Just ask anyone who has offered to serve their country, or community and been rejected because of past decisions.

    Sorry...36 hours OT this pay period and more to come and I am tired, and cranky...

    pat
    Last edited by UNM1136; 10-26-2018 at 05:08 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
    No.

    Honestly, most of us at the state and local level feel we have enough to do without doing immigration enforcement for the feds. It's simply not our job. If they're criminals there are plenty of things to hook them up for other than immigrant status. It's also a drain on our resources when we bring them in, house them at local jails, only to have the feds decline taking action. Then, our agency is on the hook for any kind of medical issues that arise during incarceration, the local sheriff is on the hook for feeding and housing them, etc.
    Gotta disagree. State and local level officers certainly have enough to do without doing immigration enforcement. But what, at our level, does immigration enforcement consist of? A phone call? A fax or email of a report? An office at the jail? We don't hook them up for immigration status, in my border town LE experience. We hook them up for criminal offenses, and just make a quick referral if their status is not clear. Even then it is the start of a long, painful process.

    Let the feds do the legwork, maybe just point them in the right direction. Let the feds investigate and take jurisdiction, putting the feds on the hook for the costs. As you point out it is the feds refusing to take action that is the issue. This is a topic regularly discussed where I work, and we are only concerned with arresting those in violation of local and state laws. Immigration status is secondary, and not our ball of wax, but what cop (or federal agent) doesn't appreciate a phone call or a copy of a report that show that this prisoner may be something different? What cop doesn't appreciate a tip in their AOR to a potential problem?

    If an offender can be identified, even as a serial misdemeanant, and a phone call or email can get the correct enforcers involved, and that offender gets deported by the feds, how does that not help the community? How is that not good policing, in the community oriented policing sense?

    pat
    Last edited by UNM1136; 10-26-2018 at 05:14 PM.

  8. #8
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Gotta disagree. State and local level officers certainly have enough to do without doing immigration enforcement. But what, at our level, does immigration enforcement consist of? A phone call? A fax or email of a report? An office at the jail? We don't hook them up for immigration status, in my border town LE experience. We hook them up for criminal offenses, and just make a quick referral if their status is not clear. Even then it is the start of a long, painful process.

    Let the feds do the legwork, maybe just point them in the right direction. Let the feds investigate and take jurisdiction, putting the feds on the hook for the costs. As you point out it is the feds refusing to take action that is the issue. This is a topic regularly discussed where I work, and we are only concerned with arresting those in violation of local and state laws. Immigration status is secondary, and not our ball of wax, but what cop (or federal agent) doesn't appreciate a phone call or a copy of a report that show that this prisoner may be something different? What cop doesn't appreciate a tip in their AOR to a potential problem?

    If an offender can be identified, even as a serial misdemeanant, and a phone call or email can get the correct enforcers involved, and that offender gets deported by the feds, how does that not help the community? How is that not good policing, in the community oriented policing sense?

    pay
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  9. #9
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
    You have me there hero. Rock on in your perfect world.
    You get defensive awfully easy for a big tough state trooper that has "put your big boy pants on" as your signature line.

    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  10. #10
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    I thought the Federal law vs State and Local got decided in 1865.

    I hate the concept of sanctuary locations. It undercuts legal immigration and guarantees illegal immigration will continue. Personally, I’d like to see every local or state politician implementing sanctuary locations be charged with a Fed violation.
    Last edited by LSP552; 10-26-2018 at 05:23 PM.

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