"Serious Use" Shotguns and Chokes

[RevolverRob]

Even with a MOD choked gun, you're going to be peppering targets at 25 yards and 1 of 2 things will happen.

1) The pattern will compensate for poor aim, and when you inspect the target, a "miss" with buckshot will look like a decent peripheral or even COM hit with birdshot.
2) The pattern will be disperse enough that you won't get the instant feed-back you want if using steel.

I guess you could use a turkey type choke to train with.

An IMOD choked shotgun should be able to put 100% of the pellets into a 20" circle at 25 yards, without issue. You can get a tighter pattern using lower velocity or plated shot, eventually you should be able to get between 10-15" pattern with cheapo birdshot from a choked shotgun. 00 buck from IMOD should get you 6-10" at 25 yards.

Flite Control will not pattern well from choked guns because the choke constriction will cause the pellets to smash into one another and cause pellet deformity, which is what causes the lame accuracy from FC from choked guns.

[nalesq]

Flite Control will not pattern well from choked guns because the choke constriction will cause the pellets to smash into one another and cause pellet deformity, which is what causes the lame accuracy from FC from choked guns.

I have two fixed mod choked shotguns and the FC patterns out of them are similar enough to the FC patterns out of my two fixed cylinder bore shotguns that I would hardly call it “lame accuracy.”

On the other hand, most non FC buck (e.g., the el cheapo S&B buck that is commonly available) definitely patterns better out of my mod guns.





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[TCinVA]

Question here: What do you guys need a steady supply of your actual HD/duty/"carry" load for?

Aren't you doing the same thing as your pistols and rifles and buying a case, verifying function, POI, stoking it and keeping the rest as spares while using a cheap generic load for practice? For any of you that feel the need for a steady supply of FC to make it a worthwhile choice, are you practicing exclusively with your HD/duty/"carry" load?

I shoot a fair bit of FFC in class and I end up giving some away to students in every class so they can see how it does in their guns and/or shoot the 15 yard portion of the qual with it.

I typically practice with heavy game loads in my guns and most of the buckshot I shoot is cheap S&B. The stuff I shoot the most of actually recoils more than the LE FFC loads I use.

I can see practicing with it at extended distances (over 15 yards) but I tend to work primarily on manipulations and speed at ~ 10-12 yards and do distance work with slugs. I don't shoot it very much in my personal practice. Outside of classes I mainly consume it when I'm testing a new gun or re-zeroing a gun because the loc-tite on the sights gave up the ghost.

[TCinVA]

If you are shooting 500 rounds per day to train with buckshot my hat is off to you and your shotgun (and your wallet!). No disrespect intended at all, like I said everyones definition is different. My shoulder would be mush at the end of that day and I actually enjoy shooting shotguns.

Dude...push/pull. I got to get you in class. You can fire 300+ rounds in a day without even the slightest tenderness in the shoulder.

[vaspence]

Dude...push/pull. I got to get you in class. You can fire 300+ rounds in a day without even the slightest tenderness in the shoulder.

I keep watching your schedule and it is highest on my list, the dates just haven't worked out yet. I'm in as soon as it does!

[willie]

All my shotguns with regular buckshot(brand name)fired through modified chokes gave very tight patterns at 25 yards. S&B buckshot is an exception. With birdshot fired through same at 25 yards, the pattern for me resembles full choke patterns because the shot in either does not begin spreading until about 30 yards. That's my experience. High velocity and small shot will spread more. I described my experience. A safe generalization that much variation exists in barrel, choke tubes, and ammo. If you don't test what you have, then you don't know. Usually.

[RevolverRob]

One, serious, issue with shotguns is variation from barrel to barrel in nominal diameter. Most American made shotguns have a diameter of about 0.73", but most Euro blasters (Berettas and Benellis) have ~0.728" - That may not seem like a lot, until one remembers that a full choke creates a restriction of 0.03". Which in turn places most cylinder-choke (.000 non-restricted) Euro guns into the realm of Mod-choked American gun.

Which returns us back to the point that you must pattern your shotgun with your ammo, whatever you decide on. Personally, I like my guns to hit POA/POI with my chosen defensive and practice loads, whatever they are. I've got no problem running a choke in a gun to get it where I want it, it's the same as adjusting sights to me. I've not seen any significant evidence that suggests that chokes are a no-go in a "serious"/"hard use" gun. In fact, quite the contrary, I have a hard time imagining anyone running their shotguns harder that clay bird shooters/upland hunters or 3-gunners and screw-in chokes are the absolute norm for those folks and their guns.

[Aray]

I've not seen any significant evidence that suggests that chokes are a no-go in a "serious"/"hard use" gun. In fact, quite the contrary, I have a hard time imagining anyone running their shotguns harder that clay bird shooters/upland hunters or 3-gunners and screw-in chokes are the absolute norm for those folks and their guns.

Agree. It sounds more like "Onions don't belong on serious sandwiches because I don't like onions."

[4gallonbucket]

One, serious, issue with shotguns is variation from barrel to barrel in nominal diameter. Most American made shotguns have a diameter of about 0.73", but most Euro blasters (Berettas and Benellis) have ~0.728" - That may not seem like a lot, until one remembers that a full choke creates a restriction of 0.03". Which in turn places most cylinder-choke (.000 non-restricted) Euro guns into the realm of Mod-choked American gun.

Which returns us back to the point that you must pattern your shotgun with your ammo, whatever you decide on. Personally, I like my guns to hit POA/POI with my chosen defensive and practice loads, whatever they are. I've got no problem running a choke in a gun to get it where I want it, it's the same as adjusting sights to me. I've not seen any significant evidence that suggests that chokes are a no-go in a "serious"/"hard use" gun. In fact, quite the contrary, I have a hard time imagining anyone running their shotguns harder that clay bird shooters/upland hunters or 3-gunners and screw-in chokes are the absolute norm for those folks and their guns.

I think you’re missing the last decimal. Yes 12 ga bores can range from about 0.725” to about 0.750” or more for “backbored” barrels. I believe there’s a Mossburg that’s around 0.780” - basically a 10ga diameter. My Browning Gold has a 0.740” bore. For any barrel though, the choke is measured against the bore to which it’s attached. Improved Cyl. Chokes generally reduce bore diameter by 0.010”, modified by 0.020”, and Full chokes are generally 0.030”. The reduction in diameter would be specific to the barrel. So a Remington (0.730” bore) modified choke would measure 0.710” and my Browning (0.740” bore) modified choke measures 0.720”


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[jetfire]

I've not taken a shotgun course,

This is my shocked face