Couldn't elbows be considered a component of grip in the same way that wrists are?
Couldn't elbows be considered a component of grip in the same way that wrists are?
I tend to keep this bookmarked when I find myself goofing up some area of fundamentals at the range.
https://pistol-training.com/articles/speed-kills
In it, Todd touches on some basic fundamentals of how the body needs to work with the gun. When it comes to grip, this advice is towards the end of that segment:
I’ve found the pressing inward to help, and to press inward better it can help to raise your elbows up and out to be able to apply more side-to-side/inward pressure.Finally, press inwards with both hands by tightening your chest muscles. This will significantly reduce the muzzle’s movement in recoil.
I remember seeing a video that touched on the raising elbows but for the life of me can’t remember who did it.
“Conspiracy theories are just spoiler alerts these days.”
I'm no kind of expert when it comes to shooting handguns. I feel I'm mediocre at best. I haven't consciously tried rolling the tops of my elbows in while shooting, but I did try it dry firing last night. Doing so gave me a more solid and firmer grip with less strain, compared to not consciously rolling my elbows at all. I found the sights has less wobble.
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No.Originally Posted by Chain
Elbow positions respond a certain way depending upon how you grip.
If you grip the gun with most of your pressure as high up near the slide as you can get it, your elbows will typically look a certain way.
If you grip the gun with more of your pressure lower on the grip, your elbows will typically look a certain way.
A good instructor can view your elbow positions as a "tell" concerning what's going on overall. There are other such "tells".
The hands, wrists, forearms, pecs, and traps come into play when gripping a pistol. The web (between thumb and index) and last two fingers of the firing hand especially come into play, and the "ball" of the support hand thumb (between thumb and wrist) especially comes into play.
Soo... be goal-oriented instead of attempting to make various pieces parts look a certain way.
Last edited by Jay Cunningham; 10-24-2018 at 12:35 PM.
When I see instructors say to engage the pecs, or pinch the shoulder blades together, I think of Ben Stoeger's advice: "grip the gun with your hands".
The grouch in me wants to agree with you, but over time I’ve come to belive that pressing into the side plannels of the grip, as hard as freakin’ possible, provides more favourable sight movement than other techniques. If you have to use your pecs to do that, then sure, do that.
Hand size and shape, coupled with grip strength, and trigger manipulation prefereance make all other instruction on the perfect grip technique kinda useless IMO, providing you aren’t doing something totally stupid like teacup, Hawaii 5-O, Weaver, etc.
You have to do what works best for you.
Last edited by Clobbersaurus; 10-24-2018 at 09:28 PM.
"Next time somebody says USPSA or IPSC is all hosing, junk punch them." - Les Pepperoni
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Replying broadly and mostly to the OP...
The language I prefer to use is, “roll both elbows over,” which is certainly less of a mouthful then “load contra-rotational tension onto the gun using your pectorals and trapezius muscles in addition to the forearm and hand muscles you’ve already been using,” which is also less ambiguous than the “roll them in” with most of folks. I guess it’s a matter of over/under vs in/out, so that they can work through what it’s not and back to what is in fact being requested.
My experience and observation is that when such a wringing onto the gun is compared to the “clapping” lateral press, it outperforms for most as far as: being gentle upon the elbows, creeping the grip and pressure higher up on the gun, and shifting recoil from being born by the wrists to the shoulders/back.
Caveat: those with significant wrist damage may Experience good shooting results but experience some discomfort after a period of firing. Sample of one, and his wrist is high-functioning, but had to be mentioned.
Non-shooting indicator for elbows being optimal: are the tips of the elbows more outboard or more downward?
Shooting indicator for elbows being optimal: is there significant articulation of the wrists under recoil?
This sort of technique is certainly biased towards the athletic and/or physically aware, but it absolutely shines with the slight or petite of build when running duty guns with duty chamberings.
Jules
Runcible Works
Having now watched the video, a few caveats:
I ask my shooters to roll both elbows over, and if I have it right WP is asking for only the non-shooting side to be torquing.
The teaching tool I use to teach basic elements of posture and an aggressively forward stance is to ask my students to either keep an inwardly-opening door shut against forceful entry (defensive overtone) or to push the nearest structural wall over (offensive overtone). After exhorting them to greater and greater legitimate efforts to accomplish these goals, from which some sort of staggered footing and squared hips generally emerges; I ask them to keep their feet planted and their posture as-is, but to relax their forward drive (not lean) until their upper body is upright and their shoulders above or just forward of their hips, and as their hands detach from the wall/door to clasp them together in front of themselves. Generally resembles what I desire from an ideal and static shooting stance, though occasionally the feet need to be shuffled.
Mountain Goating behind the firing line briefly has also helped quite a number get more aggressively behind the gun and to get a better internal sense of having that upright head orientation.
Jules
Runcible Works
Hi all.
Take a look at this very long video from real TOP world shooters, this guy worked very hard to put it together, it will sure make some of us totally confused.
IMHO at the end of the day YOU the individual need to find out what grip works best for YOU, not what works for me him or what the video said.
Enjoy... Simong.
An over-valuation of the subjective in the face of human-factors driven methodology, holds many a student back and far short of being their best.
Why bother seeking excellence and then trying to share it with one’s fellows, if someone’s just going to pop out of the hedge and mutter, “well, that’s like your opinion, man?”
Jules
Runcible Works
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