Picking a Metal-Framed Handgun - LTT Elite vs Shadow 2

[einherjarvalk]

I try to buy myself a Christmas gift every year, and this year, so long as things go well, I'm looking at finally adding a high-end metal-framed TDA handgun to my safe.

Right now I've got a rising competition bug - at the moment I'm shooting outlaw matches out of convenience with my P30L V1, but I do want to try my hand at formal USPSA matches next year. I got interested in the Beretta 92 series earlier this year after talking with some other shooters in our matches that were either shooting LTT-tuned PX4s or had taken classes with Mr. Langdon recently. These shooters had nothing but good things to say about modern 92Gs and highly recommended the Wilson BrigTacs...which shortly gave way to recommendations for the LTT Elite once it began circulating. I've got some limited experience with the 92FS Inox that a friend brought out once before I started taking handgun shooting seriously, and I recall shooting it comparatively well given my limited skillset at the time.

That said, the Shadow 2 has always had my eye to a certain extent as well. Even back before I started shooting as regularly as I do now, I heard great things about it from friends who have bought them and competed with them, and they appear to be the undisputed champion in USPSA Production class. My understanding is that a semi-custom gun such as the LTT Elite 92 would put me in Limited once I start shooting USPSA. However, I'm somewhat hesitant to jump on the CZ train due to durability concerns I've heard about (mostly premature parts failures and occasionally light primer strikes). With the majority of my handgun stable now having "HK" or "Glock" stamped on the slide, I've come to really appreciate guns that need a minimum of preventative maintenance and parts replacement.

Ultimately, I'm looking for some guidance as to the major pros/cons with each handgun. The way I'm looking at it now, the LTT Elite seems to make more sense as a gun that can serve many purposes from concealed carry to competition right out of the box, whereas the Shadow 2 is firmly in the competition category, with all the increased maintenance schedule and fine-tuning that may entail. If that's the case, it may be worth buying the LTT Elite instead and deciding on a "comp-specific" gun later once I'm fully committed to actually showing up at USPSA matches on a regular basis (in which case I may find myself weighing the Shadow 2 against the USP Expert, but that's a whole different story).

My local range might have a Shadow 2 for rent, but certainly doesn't have an LTT Elite, and I'm doubtful that a factory M9A1 will give me a reasonable sense of what I'd be getting with a higher-end model. I don't think either of these guns are going to instantly improve my shooting or make me more competitive on their own, but I do want to make sure I'm making an informed decision either way.

[Bucky]

Ultimately, I'm looking for some guidance as to the major pros/cons with each handgun. The way I'm looking at it now, the LTT Elite seems to make more sense as a gun that can serve many purposes from concealed carry to competition right out of the box, whereas the Shadow 2 is firmly in the competition category, with all the increased maintenance schedule and fine-tuning that may entail. If that's the case, it may be worth buying the LTT Elite instead and deciding on a "comp-specific" gun later once I'm fully committed to actually showing up at USPSA matches on a regular basis (in which case I may find myself weighing the Shadow 2 against the USP Expert, but that's a whole different story).

I think you hit on one of the key comparison points. I don’t have the LTT Elite, but do have an Elite 2 that LTT worked on many years ago. Very solid pistol for sure. The other question is, is the LTT Elite Production legal yet?

[revchuck38]

I have experience with the base versions of the guns you're considering, a 92 Inox Brigadier and two CZ-75Bs, but not the specific models you're looking at. IMO, there's no wrong answer for what you're considering.

Both guns are excellent in terms of accuracy and reliability. Both guns have had issues in the past with parts breakage which came to light from heavy use in competition and which have been rectified by the manufacturer and/or the aftermarket - locking blocks and trigger return springs with the Beretta and trigger return springs and firing pin issues with the CZ. Both guns can be purchased new from highly-respected gunsmiths with all the bells and whistles.

The difference, IMO, is in the ergonomics, how they feel in your hand. The grip frame on the CZ is smaller and the trigger reach in DA is shorter. Racking the slide is slightly more difficult on the CZ since the slide runs inside the frame as opposed to outside on the Beretta. Operation of the manual safeties is much different; lowering the hammer for a DA first shot requires two hands and ALL your attention with the CZ, it's much simpler with the Beretta.

I've used both guns for concealed carry and competition. The CZ conceals very slightly better. Shooting them in competition is a wash. Thankfully, I've never been in a defensive situation where shooting was required, but I've switched from carrying the CZs to another Beretta (the PX4) due to the ease of decocking.

If you see yourself ever carrying the gun, I'd go with the LTT. Range toy? Coin toss.

[BigT]

The popularity of the Shadow 2 in IPSC and USPSA Production is with good reason. If you want a pure game gun as opposed to a dual purpose one its the gun to get.

I think the small parts breakage thing gets a little over blown. Trigger springs fail and slide stops break, less than they used to. If you don't go batshit on the mods they set most things off. Mine has a just over 6.5lb DA trigger and sets off all the primers Ive tried including Ginex.

I thing the LTT92 would make an epic fighting gun.

[Bucky]

The difference, IMO, is in the ergonomics, how they feel in your hand. The grip frame on the CZ is smaller and the trigger reach in DA is shorter. Racking the slide is slightly more difficult on the CZ since the slide runs inside the frame as opposed to outside on the Beretta. Operation of the manual safeties is much different; lowering the hammer for a DA first shot requires two hands and ALL your attention with the CZ, it's much simpler with the Beretta.

The trigger reachon my Shadow 2 is long, much longer than my Berettas. In fact, I need to get the short reach trigger for mine soon! The frame feels longer front to back as well. Not sure if this is just an anomaly with the Shadow 2, as it’s the only CZ I own.

[nightstalker865]

No decocker on the Shadow makes it a no-go for me. I’ll take a Beretta or Sig over a CZ any day.


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[Jared]

I sold my shadow 2. I've been using Berettas since before I found this forum. I'm probably biased. Keep that in mind.

For a dual use gun, Beretta all the way. The decocking situation on the CZ's is a no go for any kind of post incident situation in my opinion.

Now, if you want to do a "family" things even out a lot. A shadow 2 is a phenomenal competition pistol. Pairing it with a P09 for defensive use makes a lot of sense. The Shadow is probably the better game gun.

All in all, I greatly prefer the Beretta models. I use a full sized 92 for any competition use, as well as a nightstand pistol with a rail mounted light. A PX4CC gets the carry duty.

When I had my shadow 2, I did a fair amount of shooting with it. I didn't see much of a jump at all in scores with the CZ compared to what I was doing with the Beretta 92's I have. That led me to decide that it deserved a different home.

[revchuck38]

The trigger reachon my Shadow 2 is long, much longer than my Berettas. In fact, I need to get the short reach trigger for mine soon! The frame feels longer front to back as well. Not sure if this is just an anomaly with the Shadow 2, as it’s the only CZ I own.

To be honest, I'm going from memory on this. I sold the Brigadier a couple of years ago due to personal reasons not related to function or finance.

[CraigS]

My SIL had a Shadow 2 for 6 months or so. I got to shoot it some. I really liked it but that dropping the hammer on a live round and using you thumb and finger to make sure it doesn't fire made it a gun I absolutely will not own. When I shot his I just loaded 10 in the mag and shot til the slide locked back. Here is an idea that may make your B92 and even better all around gun.
Home Brewed EII by craig stuard, on Flickr
See the small hole in the grip at the rear bottom? This allows me to change hammer springs w/o removing the grips. Although I am fortunate enough to have a dedicated comp pistol it could also be used to go back and forth on springs. 12# for comp and 14# for defense. I also installed a spring cap w/ the old lanyard loop because it makes it easier to depress the cap to remove the pin.

[beenalongtime]

If I were to do the hole thing for competition, then personally I would be looking at a Wilson mag guide, rather then the flat cap. (just preference)

I bought a LTT Elite, and twice looked at the same Shadow 2 at my LGS. It was brought in, with one clip through it on a trade for a "grail gun", then the person that bought it, brought it back after putting three magazines through it and marked for $1000. It was stolen when they were broken into, or I would have bought it.
From handling them both, I would still prefer the LTT. For defense, with my hours, I would prefer the LTT with Spartan sights, but the normal fibre optic for competition.
To me there are few reasons why the gun shouldn't make it into the 2000 sold category:
End of the world as we know it, shitstorm.
EL gets tired of dealing with it and people and says enough.
Beretta decides, Hey, this really is a better designed frame, and lets use it for all 92's now and eliminate that point on the button, etc.

I have a P01 and another one of the versions without the rail, that are fine fun guns. For carry and practice, I have several PX4's, that just feel so much better to me.

EDIT: I should add that my LTT is loaned to my LGS owners, who want to order one and I haven't received it back because they are enjoying it, and debating which sights. If I didn't have other expenses happen now, I would be ordering another with the Spartan sights and of course like the other, with the trigger job.