If your telling me I need a concealable sub gun in 9mm I’ll take the HK MP5 PDW please. Hell I’ll take an MP5 with a retractable stock.
If your telling me I need a concealable sub gun in 9mm I’ll take the HK MP5 PDW please. Hell I’ll take an MP5 with a retractable stock.
Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.
I predict that Sig is going to win this one.
"You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
"I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
Beretta 93? Oh, wait, we aren't buying Berettas any more.
Code Name: JET STREAM
Attackers overseas are much more likely to be wearing body armor, so a 5.56 or even SCHV PDW such as the MP7 is a good route over 9mm.
You raise a good point with ammo. Speer Gold Dot G2 is currently in use with pointy-tipped units, and as I understand it the MHS contract also included the procurement of a standard issue JHP. I hope that these should be available for use by PSDs as they are legally in a gray area; DOD gets away with using military personnel for PSDs stateside on some legally tenuous grounds....so I'm sure they could play the same sleeve of cards (if needed) to use JHPs overseas. Given we all know how everything makes sense in Big Gov, I don't want to assume that either of these two ammunition options would be available to the details, however.
With that said, I wouldn't lose any sleep using a 9mm SMG, particularly in domestic assignments. I'd be perfectly content with a Brugger and Thomet MP9, actually.
When we get outside the envelope of a B&T MP9, I can't really think of a reason to purposely issue an SMG over COTS 5.56 weapons. The newest generation of DD Mk18s we're using are just as light, very svelte, and recoil about the same as a .22. The only thing that would make them better is if we had LAW adapters, or an original design with a folding stock.
Following the Navy Yard shooting, the NCIS protection office in DC decided they needed more long guns. They received a shipment of Colt SMGs, which from what I've been told were never removed from the crates....they just waited until more MP5s showed up.
Last edited by TGS; 10-23-2018 at 10:21 PM.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
The article’s picture and content make me think that the authors are conflating different RFPs. What is pictured is not an AR but the Sig MCX Rattler in 300blk. It was specifically designed by Sig around a SOCOM RFP for a ultra-compact PDW to be used on high-value person security details.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone...ifle-in-combat
The contract specified a 300blk upper receiver that could be adapted to existing M4 lowers (the MCX has an adaptor) with a folding stock option that collapsed down to a mere 15 inches (26” stock extended). Sig responded with a 5.5” 1:5 twist 300blk upper that is designed to be fired unsuppressed. Supposedly, CAG has a few of these and have paired them with the 110 grain Barnes TAC-TX seen here:
Although that 5.5” barrel length seems short, it still sends those 110 grain pills down range at about 1800-1900 fps. The TAC-TX expands down to 1400 fps or well beyond 100 yards. Couple this terminal performance with the ability to defeat soft armor and the Rattler upper puts an MP5K to shame.
Last edited by Sensei; 10-24-2018 at 12:08 AM.
I like my rifles like my women - short, light, fast, brown, and suppressed.
Doing some mild research and noticed B&T has a new version of the APC9 (called the APC9-G). It takes Glock 9mm mags and you can use any AR style pistol grip. If I can get this as an SBR, throw a short can on it, I'm all over it!
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...g-bt-apc9-pro/
https://www.omahaoutdoors.com/blog/b...ke-glock-mags/
And while I agree a PCC will not do the same work as a rifle caliber SBR... this thing would be much easier to take places that the shortest 5.56 or 300BLK platforms will go. And since I carry a Glock 9mm already...
What is the origin of such proposals? For example, do Army and Marine Corps generals sit around and brain storm? Do top dogs ask grunt nco's for suggestions?
The question sounds naïve. Perhaps I am.
A suggestion box in the hallway at the Pentagon. lol!
Likely all of what you mentioned. As much as I like to think it's a team of professionals with gobs of combat experience, pouring over AAR's in an effort to be better at the mission... it's often someone with a pet project/idea who waits until he is in a position of power/access to implement it. For example, had I been promoted to CNO, I'd have purchased A-10's with folding wings to carry Harpoon missiles off carriers into combat because that was an idea I had during the cold war for taking on the Soviet navy. Of course, I never joined the U.S. Navy so the contracting officers were safe from my musings.
I see. So maybe if a general were in my Sunday school class and I let him shoot my potato cannon and let him hunt and fish for free on my half(?)of the King Ranch, then he might take my advice on submachine guns after he observed me shoot dirt clods and stumps at long range with my black powder revolver. Maybe we should just buy something off the shelf that works well for everybody else.