Big Army Soliciting for new 9mm SMG (Sub Compact Weapon - SCW)

[El Cid]

This is interesting for a few reasons. The image shown is a very short bbl AR, but we know the media seldom gets the gun pic correct. They are soliciting for a new PDW/SMG and it must use 9x19 ammunition.

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/army-se...le-machine-gun

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Soldiers may soon have a covertly-carried, powerful machine gun to defend Americans who are at high risk from enemy attacks.

The new weapon would significantly boost the amount of firepower soldiers have at their fingertips to respond to a threat against individuals who are particularly attractive targets to terrorists, for example.

The threat to high-profile targets was highlighted recently when U.S. Army Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Smiley was wounded in a Taliban attack in Afghanistan’s Kandahar province.

While the weapon eyed by the military will deliver a more muscular response than those that tend to be carried on Protective Security Details, the goal is for the new beast to minimize collateral damage.

Dubbed the “Sub Compact Weapon,” this Army initiative aims to produce a smart, ultra-compact design for specific missions. This is essential because it means soldiers can be armed with a discreet and easy-to-conceal weapon. It also enables a soldier to be fast and agile to stop any threat.

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What's sad is the myths that refuse to die. I don't know if this is from the Fox News reporter, or an Army document, but I laughed at this statement:
"Opting for 9mm rounds rather than 5.56mm could assist in reducing overpenetration and thus collateral damage."

[JRB]

They already cancelled an RFI for it in July, but reopened it last month, awarding 6 contracts:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...pon-contracts/

Sig and B&T both threw their hats in the ring, along with four other vendors I've never heard of.

Whatever they choose, I doubt most of us mere mortals will ever see one let alone handle it or qualify on it.
I also struggle to see what these can do that a MK18 can't.

[okie john]

I also struggle to see what these can do that a MK18 can't.

Justify the existence of a bloated procurement system and the staff slots that depend on it?


Okie John

[JRB]

Justify the existence of a bloated procurement system and the staff slots that depend on it?


Okie John

Gotta generate those OER bullets somehow!

[WobblyPossum]

I've always thought that SMGs were cool as hell, mostly due to '80s movie nostalgia. @Gadfly did have an informative post about the specific role SMGs fill that even short barreled AR weapons aren't perfect for in the thread about Israeli Commandos dropping their Tavors for M4s. It sounds like these guns will be for PSD details and they'll excel in such a role. Small SMGs can be easily concealed in bags or under coats that would struggle to hide an AR SBR without a LAW folder and unlike an AR with a LAW folder, SMGs are normally designed so they can be fired more than once with the stock folded or collapsed.

[JRB]

I've always thought that SMGs were cool as hell, mostly due to '80s movie nostalgia. @Gadfly did have an informative post about the specific role SMGs fill that even short barreled AR weapons aren't perfect for in the thread about Israeli Commandos dropping their Tavors for M4s. It sounds like these guns will be for PSD details and they'll excel in such a role. Small SMGs can be easily concealed in bags or under coats that would struggle to hide an AR SBR without a LAW folder and unlike an AR with a LAW folder, SMGs are normally designed so they can be fired more than once with the stock folded or collapsed.

Hypothetically speaking, most of this is true. I absolutely love SMG's because they're fun as hell to shoot - I actually own a transferable UZI because of 80's movie nostalgia, ease of maintenance, and ease of shooting.

But there's a host of nice PDW stocks and similarly compact AR setups. Troy's M7 system is an off the shelf option that puts it in an SMG equivalent sizing. If these PSD's will be limited to duty issue ammo like M855A1 and M882 ball, I'll take the M855A1 any day of the week because the M882 has known and very real limitations in terminal effect on target. The M855A1 isn't much better, especially from a 7-10in barrel, but it is without question substantially more effective than M882 ball. The overpenetration talk is misguided at best, and if the PSD's aren't limited to duty ammo, why not run effective duty-loaded 5.56 on our PSD's?

And if our top brass is worth defending with good ammo with a properly designed projectile, why can't the rest of us in uniform use it to have better results on bad guys?

IMHO, this is all a dog and pony show clusterfuck and a few Generals will enjoy PSD's toting new toys they can idly talk about with the gaggle of killhat CSM's and Flappy Birds they roll with.

[Casual Friday]

Sometimes the correct answer is the simplest one.

Attachment 31640

[HCM]

Sometimes the correct answer is the simplest one.

Attachment 31640

Not really. These guns had significant issues in service with both DEA and US DOS.

Even if you get one that works, the service life is limited, the AR was never designed as s blowback. The guns literally beat themselves to death.

[Casual Friday]

Not really. These guns had significant issues in service with both DEA and US DOS.

Even if you get one that works, the service life is limited, the AR was never designed as s blowback. The guns literally beat themselves to death.

You're killin' my 80s action movie vibe man.

[JRB]

Not really. These guns had significant issues in service with both DEA and US DOS.

Even if you get one that works, the service life is limited, the AR was never designed as s blowback. The guns literally beat themselves to death.

I recall a DOE 9mm upper on a transferable owned by a family friend that had lots of problems. But this makes sense.

Nonetheless, they now make very reliable and vetted 5.56 variants that fit into the same size/form factor as those old 9mm's.