5 rounds of .38 or 7 rounds of 22 mag?

[JHC]

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html

.22Mag in a short barrell is pretty much a waste except for the extra noise that MIGHT be useful.

I’m not a revo guy so no comment there, but .38spl seem a solid choice if you can accept the size/weight.

The Kel-Tec P32 or P3AT/LCP/TCP seem better options for mous gun size/weigth requirements. I have a P32 and P3AT that, after a little internal polish, have been reliable for low-volume shooting. Frankly I rarely carry either anymore.

A tiny mouse-gun P32 with Fiocchi 32 Auto 73gr FMJ ammo will put a .32” hole in 18” of gelatin IIRC, with little recoil. I don’t think you can get anywhere near that performance with 22 or .22mag from a small revolver or auto.

.22 solids, yeah they can pretty close albeit not .32 hole if a fmj really cuts a caliber diameter hole.

I've seen reports of velocity from snubs where the .22 mag only bests the Long Rifle by maybe a 100 fps. Some loads a little more. Some loads a little less. Pretty much a waste except, that somewhere there is the threshold where the velocity IS enough to be the difference between shit and not quite shit. I don't think anyone knows where that line is exactly. So as cheap as .22 Mag is and while more than LR it's still pretty dang cheap by the box of 50.


I've got the 351C and will have a 43C in the near future. 11-13 oz snubbies are just wicked fun.

[JCS]

Claude on 22Mag in revolvers:
Attachment 31446

Personally I’m hoping to pick up a S&W 43C 22LR (8 shots).

Hmm. Thanks for sharing! Can anyone who owns a 22 mag revolver comment on their experience?

[ragnar_d]

I haven't fired that much 22lr in the last few years combined, much less last year, but over the course of my life, I've had far more first strike failures with rimfire (specifically 22lr) than I have with centerfire "anything". I'll admit the percentage drops significantly with newer or better firearms, but hasn't dropped to the level of centerfire ammo. In a revolver, I'd be less concerned as I can merely pull the trigger again (unless it's the last round), but with a semi-auto, I have to perform a malfunction drill.

From what I've experienced in the last couple years, rimfire ignition reliability has gone up considerably in the last couple years as the demand has fallen from the "OMG! THERE'S NO .22!!!111!1!1" panic that gripped us for most of Obama's second term. I've had the best luck with CCI/Federal and Remington (I had some bad lots of the latter during the 13-15 vintage). Winchester has been okay. In the last ~7500 I've shot, I've had one completely dead round (Winchester M22) and 3 CCI rounds that went off on the second strike. If I were going to pick a favorite based on past and current performance, it would be CCI/Federal and Eley.

His point was that most criminals are looking to victimize someone, not get into a gun battle. Therefore, it doesn't take much to make them disengage and either flee or give you the opening to flee. I recall seeing a video FPF Training uses that shows a VERY determined armed robber bashing his way into a barricaded door at a convenience store (daylight, in front of witnesses). He obviously had his victims outclassed in terms of size, strength, and determination. When he finally gets through, the worker cowering on the floor shoots him once or twice with a small caliber pocket pistol she had finally managed to draw from her pocket while sitting against the door. He immediately unasses the area. Nobody else was injured.

This is where the context and personal assessments come into play for me. The rimfire J-frame would be my jogging/gym shorts gun or, possibly for dispatching wayward critters as required when I move back to my version of civilization. Jogging through my sleepy suburbia neighborhood at 0530 probably won't necessitate jocking up like I'm going into Liberty City, Opa-Locka, or Hialeah so I will likely be okay with some aerosol hot sauce or a .22 J-frame.

Having taken Claude's snubby class, I appreciate the gun type. As posted here, I've shot the 38 SPL round in a 642 in various matches so I feel reasonably comfortable with it. I also had a SW 317 and hated the trigger. That being said with the choice of a 22 LR or mag vs. a 38/357 J - I go for, most of the time, with a SW 432 in 32 HR mag. It's light and 6 shot. Rounds are currently the Hornady Critical Defense and a speed strip of 6 extra.

The gun isn't made anymore but there are Ruger 327 LCRs.

It works as a pocket gun when dresses mandates it or a bug for the ubiquitous 9 mm EDC Glock (a few generations back now).

As a cliche, you have to shoot the thing under some pressure as in class or match. Too many Taurus 85 dudes and gals out there. Practice is a shotgun pattern at 7 yards on the square range.

I've been surfing GunBroker for the .327 & .32 H&R J-frames and will pull the trigger on one eventually but I'll be more likely to snag an LCR and maybe an SP101 before that. I've been wanting a 632 Pro Series for a couple years but I might as well wish for a traffic free commute in Miami, they're about equally rare. The .32 H&R and .327 Fed are two calibers I wish were more popular.



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Disclaimer: I work in the firearms industry as a designer and engineer. My posts do not represent the opinions or positions of my employers, past or present.

[Hizzie]

I see a lot of eye shaped targets when Claude posts pics of him using his 22 snubs. That might be a clue.

[deputyG23]

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html

.22Mag in a short barrell is pretty much a waste except for the extra noise that MIGHT be useful.

I’m not a revo guy so no comment there, but .38spl seem a solid choice if you can accept the size/weight.

The Kel-Tec P32 or P3AT/LCP/TCP seem better options for mous gun size/weigth requirements. I have a P32 and P3AT that, after a little internal polish, have been reliable for low-volume shooting. Frankly I rarely carry either anymore.

A tiny mouse-gun P32 with Fiocchi 32 Auto 73gr FMJ ammo will put a .32” hole in 18” of gelatin IIRC, with little recoil. I don’t think you can get anywhere near that performance with 22 or .22mag from a small revolver or auto.

I would have given the Beretta Pico a whirl if the 7.65 barrel promised was made available.

[JHC]

Hmm. Thanks for sharing! Can anyone who owns a 22 mag revolver comment on their experience?

I cleaned our 351C after 200 rounds and it never got smoked up enough to bind or anything. Wheelies can go either way on that. It's trigger pull is heavy but for its intended use, it's ok by me. Win cases seem to take more effort to extract than CCI. I prefer to only use CCI.

@GJM has reported in another much older thread about these rimfire snubbies that Bill Rogers shot the .22 mag j frame quite a bit and used one for a BUG but has since switched to a 9mm LCR IIRC.

I can't speak to a fleet of them. But ours is ok.


I haven't found anything to dislike about it. Here are a couple clips of shooting it. I don't find the heavy trigger that much of a handicap at these ranges (7 yds). I haven't hit shit at 25 with it though.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/780361...posted-public/



https://www.flickr.com/photos/780361...posted-public/

[David S.]

#disengagementpower .

I was listening to Claude Werner on a podcast recently and he made the point that for private citizens the actual requirement is disengagement, not stopping. Any use of the gun, from mere display to shooting the perp with a small caliber, that allows you to disengage from the perp is a success. This differentiates our need from that of a cop as they have a different mission, which is to apprehend, not mere disengagement.

It goes against conventional wisdom, but is worth consideration, especially if you can't handle or conceal more gun.

That said, my Rule 1 gun is a 5-shot 38. With a rimfire, I'd be concerned about ammo reliability, but not terminal effectiveness.

Chris

[Rex G]

I agree with Claude Werner, that disengagement is the goal of the private citizen. If it is just me, on my feet, I am often quite OK with a very-low-powered firearm, now that I am retired from LEO-ing. With infant and toddler grandsons, and a wife and parents with mobility issues, however, there are times that disengagement might mean standing my ground, or moving a very short distance, along an oblique, to divert attention away from loved ones, and disengaging someone’s brain from his bodily functions.

I have not found a satisfactory answer to the .22 WMR-in-handguns question. Cumulative-trauma injury in my formerly-stronger thumb/hand/wrist has prompted me to step-down the amount of muzzle flip I find acceptable, and an injury in my opposite-side rotator cuff has interrupted my plan to switch “strong” sides, so, .38 wadcutter has become my friend. I like eight rounds of .38 HBWC, in an S&W 327 PC snub-gun, any time I can dress around the N-Frame bulk. Otherwise, I have one Airweight PC Centennial, and a pair of Airlite-Ti Centennials.

[Jim Watson]

I cannot recall the last misfire in my M18 but I have been giving it good ammo, MiniMags and other plated HV.

Not a revolver, but my S&W Plastic M&P Compact is thus far 100% on MiniMags.
I have had one malfunction, a short recoil that ejected the empty but did not pick up the next with Aquila HV.
Smaller amounts of AE and even some Golden Bullets apparently made before their reputation went south have been reliable.
It seems to be broken in well enough for good SV, too.

[Hambo]

Curious on people’s thoughts on this topic. For a j frame, rule 1 gun would you prefer 5 rounds of 38, 7 rounds of 22 mag or even 8 rounds of .22?

Five .38s or 7-8 .380s. No thanks on the .22s of any kind.