Coincidentally i also got to thinking about this after the recent podcast by P&S. Ordered a new P32 the other day that i got a a great deal on. Had 2 other ones in the past and was regretting getting rid of them. For a rule 1 gun I'm comfortable 8 shots of 32 acp. For me the p32 is the only gun that is truly pocketable comfort wise.
I haven't fired that much 22lr in the last few years combined, much less last year, but over the course of my life, I've had far more first strike failures with rimfire (specifically 22lr) than I have with centerfire "anything". I'll admit the percentage drops significantly with newer or better firearms, but hasn't dropped to the level of centerfire ammo. In a revolver, I'd be less concerned as I can merely pull the trigger again (unless it's the last round), but with a semi-auto, I have to perform a malfunction drill.Originally Posted by ragnar_d
His point was that most criminals are looking to victimize someone, not get into a gun battle. Therefore, it doesn't take much to make them disengage and either flee or give you the opening to flee. I recall seeing a video FPF Training uses that shows a VERY determined armed robber bashing his way into a barricaded door at a convenience store (daylight, in front of witnesses). He obviously had his victims outclassed in terms of size, strength, and determination. When he finally gets through, the worker cowering on the floor shoots him once or twice with a small caliber pocket pistol she had finally managed to draw from her pocket while sitting against the door. He immediately unasses the area. Nobody else was injured.
I'm not saying all you need is a mousegun, just that there's evidence the relative power/size of the gun is less important than being armed and having the will to fight back.
I had a P32 back before KT introduced the P380, which was before Ruger released the LCP. Mine was 100% accurate even after I cracked the frame with HOT handloads (60gr Gold Dots at 1200fps!). KT, to their credit, replaced the frame free of charge. I eventually sold that gun for no good reason other than I bought my current J-frame, a 2005 S&W 37-2:
I should have kept it because it was the better ultra-light CCW for those rare times when even the J-frame is too big or heavy.
Chris
My LCP is on consignment after I realized that, while I can grip it firmly enough to make usefully accurate hits (meat-clamp it, really), I can't grip it firmly enough to keep its tiny self from actually doing damage to my oversize paws when I shoot it. Haven't run into that yet with J frames; hoping it's not just because I haven't been far enough down the hole with them. And I'm relying on the changeability of revolver stocks to solve problems that may arise.
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Claude on 22Mag in revolvers:
Personally I’m hoping to pick up a S&W 43C 22LR (8 shots).
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That's good to know. While I had no such problems with a P32, I have wondered what the LCP would be like. The grip feels vestigial. I don't have problems with an airweight j-frame, even with boot grips and +P loads. It may not be comfortable, but it doesn't do damage.
Chris
Having taken Claude's snubby class, I appreciate the gun type. As posted here, I've shot the 38 SPL round in a 642 in various matches so I feel reasonably comfortable with it. I also had a SW 317 and hated the trigger. That being said with the choice of a 22 LR or mag vs. a 38/357 J - I go for, most of the time, with a SW 432 in 32 HR mag. It's light and 6 shot. Rounds are currently the Hornady Critical Defense and a speed strip of 6 extra.
The gun isn't made anymore but there are Ruger 327 LCRs.
It works as a pocket gun when dresses mandates it or a bug for the ubiquitous 9 mm EDC Glock (a few generations back now).
As a cliche, you have to shoot the thing under some pressure as in class or match. Too many Taurus 85 dudes and gals out there. Practice is a shotgun pattern at 7 yards on the square range.
This thread makes me want to try carrying my browning 1911-22 with 10+1 capacity just for fun. You can dump all 11 so dang fast with no recoil with that little gun.
Last edited by EMC; 10-19-2018 at 11:15 AM.
Or go with the .380 version that is externally identical.
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http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html
.22Mag in a short barrell is pretty much a waste except for the extra noise that MIGHT be useful.
I’m not a revo guy so no comment there, but .38spl seem a solid choice if you can accept the size/weight.
The Kel-Tec P32 or P3AT/LCP/TCP seem better options for mous gun size/weigth requirements. I have a P32 and P3AT that, after a little internal polish, have been reliable for low-volume shooting. Frankly I rarely carry either anymore.
A tiny mouse-gun P32 with Fiocchi 32 Auto 73gr FMJ ammo will put a .32” hole in 18” of gelatin IIRC, with little recoil. I don’t think you can get anywhere near that performance with 22 or .22mag from a small revolver or auto.
Last edited by GuanoLoco; 10-19-2018 at 11:59 AM.
Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?
I think the 22LR or WMR recommendation is legitimate if the person to whom it is suggested cannot handle the recoil of a standard pressure 38 wadcutter, SWC etc. If they can shoot such a standard pressure 38 special with acceptable accuracy I think it would be a mistake to drop down so far in caliber.
22LR has resulted in a lot of shootings which eventually proved fatal, but I would not feel comfortable relying on it to stop a violent attack.
If the 22 caliber round has a round tip and can't be counted on to reliably expand you are betting on up to 7-8 very small permanent wound cavities as compared to up to 5 larger permanent wound cavities benefiting the superior cutting action of a wadcutter.
I absolutely believe that a large subset of violent criminals will be stopped by displaying any gun or by shooting them with any gun. It seem improbable that any of those attackers will be less effectively addressed when confronted with a weapon with superior terminal ballistics. A smaller subset of violent criminals will only stop their attack when you shut down their body. If you're prepared for the second group the first group is also covered.
If needed, and funds allow, having a similar 22LR J frame or heavier 640 pro, SP-101 with which to train, seems like a better plan than reducing the caliber of the gun you're actually carrying.
For people with the physical and mental ability to shoot accurately while managing the recoil of a 38 Special wadcutter, I think recommending or choosing a .22 caliber revolver over a 442, M&P340, 340PD, 38 LCR etc of similar weight and size is misguided.
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