Shooting incidents in the news.

[BillSWPA]

I do not believe I have seen one of their malls in PA that had any signage beyond something in tiny print buried in a long list of rules. In PA the sign does not have the force of law. If they ask me to leave and not return, there is no shortage of other places competing for my $.

It is of course trespassing to refuse to leave if asked to do so.

If I am in a state where signs do have the force of law, I pay attention to the notice requirements. Does the law specifically require a physical sign, or merely knowledge of the policy in that state?

[RoyGBiv]

Alas, HD, I'm almost a thousand miles from there.

Shout-out to our many P-F members in that area: is it convenient for anyone to drop by and take photos of the signage?

It's been a few years since I was there, it's a solid hour plus from me. My recollection is that the entrance to parking is not posted and that since it's a set of small buildings where you enter each store directly from the parking lot, each store would need to post their own 30.xx signs. A few were posted properly, most were not.

This is consistent with what I'm reading online. I'll check with texas3006.com when I'm at my desk and can pull up my password for a search there.

[RoyGBiv]

.

If I am in a state where signs do have the force of law, I pay attention to the notice requirements. Does the law specifically require a physical sign, or merely knowledge of the policy in that state?

Texas requires posting a very specific sign. If you want to prohibit 1.concealed, 2.open and 3.unlicensed carry, each is a different sign, in both English and Spanish. Ugly and relatively big signs must be posted at each entrance. The doors at Sprouts markets are about 35% obscured by their signs.

30.07 (no open carry) are the most common, it seems. But you can still conceal carry at a 30.07 posted location.

https://www.texas3006.com/signs.php

Examples https://www.mysecuritysign.com/tresp...gn/sku-k2-0254

[Bucky]

So someone could easily find themselves accused of lying when they 100% believed they were telling the truth. Perjury requires intentionally lying, but the potential for an unnecessary misunderstanding is concerning.

Brings up a question on sex, or does the most recent form have more than 2 options? Or are is there more than one question?

Maybe they should change the question.

Chromosome Pair?

___ XX
___ XY

[RoyGBiv]

Alas, HD, I'm almost a thousand miles from there.

Shout-out to our many P-F members in that area: is it convenient for anyone to drop by and take photos of the signage?

It's been a few years since I was there, it's a solid hour plus from me. My recollection is that the entrance to parking is not posted and that since it's a set of small buildings where you enter each store directly from the parking lot, each store would need to post their own 30.xx signs. A few were posted properly, most were not.

This is consistent with what I'm reading online. I'll check with texas3006.com when I'm at my desk and can pull up my password for a search there.

Following up from an actual keyboard...

This is what the place looks like from the parking lot.... Lots of strip stores....

I believe it's possible to post the entire property as off-limits by posting the legally correct signs at all parking lot entrances. Or, by posting every store entrance properly. I don't recall any parking lot signs and I'm not finding any indication that any have been added since my last visit (pre-COVID). Searching Texas3006.com database, I'm not finding any reports there of the entire property being posted (correctly or incorrectly) and looking at a few stores by name, not finding any stores listed as posted...

We likely have some members closer that can confirm the current parking lot sign status.

[Mas]

Thanks, Roy.

[RoyGBiv]

Texas requires posting a very specific sign. If you want to prohibit 1.concealed, 2.open and 3.unlicensed carry, each is a different sign, in both English and Spanish. Ugly and relatively big signs must be posted at each entrance. The doors at Sprouts markets are about 35% obscured by their signs.

30.07 (no open carry) are the most common, it seems. But you can still conceal carry at a 30.07 posted location.

https://www.texas3006.com/signs.php

Examples https://www.mysecuritysign.com/tresp...gn/sku-k2-0254

Here is the text of 30.06 as written.... LINK.
30.05 prohibits unlicensed carry
30.06 prohibits concealed carry
30.07 prohibits open carry.
If you want to prohibit all 3, you need 3 signs and the signs need to be 1. Compliant and 2. Posted at all entrances.

There are some exceptions to the law and various carve outs you can read at the link, but this is the gist.
Section A refers to a card that a business might hand to someone, section A does not refer to posting signs.
I have never seen any business use section A to prohibit carry.

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Here s an example of a properly posted business.... Sprouts...
First image is 30.06 and 30.07... Second image is 30.05

ETA: I've heard/read people argue that the black letters on glass do not meet the standard of "clearly visible"... IMO, that would be a losing argument in court. Separate debate.

[HeavyDuty]

I just checked the Posted! app, and the mall isn’t listed as being posted. I’m not sure how much that app is being used down here, though.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Even in TX, the very large majority of licensed folks don't religiously carry, according to some survey. Karl Rehn found that the vast majority of them have no formal training beyond the state class. I know I had friends who talked the gun talk but I could not ever get to train or go to a match. One just said you pull out the Taurus 85 and do your business. Probably works for the one economically motivated muggers but ...

[Jim Watson]

https://www.fox5vegas.com/2023/05/10...-near-airport/


Officers found the vehicle near Hacienda Ave. and saw the driver, a man in his 30s, spray-painting a wall. The suspect removed a mask and ran away, heading southbound on University Center Dr. Officers reported seeing a gun in his hand and “held back a little bit” as they watched the suspect cross a berm and run into traffic.

Police lost sight of the suspect and then heard two gunshots. The lieutenant said that the suspect “immediately began pointing a gun at passing traffic” on Paradise Rd. He then stopped a passing vehicle and pointed the gun at the driver.

The driver of that vehicle was armed with a firearm and “engaged him and shot the suspect,” according to Johansson. After officers arrived, the suspect was transported to Sunrise Hospital, where he died from his injuries.