Oh, so much yes! When trying to get info I frequently tell, people "it's ok, everyone lies to the cops..its not against the law...I expect it...tell me what really happened...Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's
pat
Oh, so much yes! When trying to get info I frequently tell, people "it's ok, everyone lies to the cops..its not against the law...I expect it...tell me what really happened...
pat
This isn't a shooting incident, but a defensive stabbing in the news that got the guy arrested and charged with murder. There is a very clear surveillance video in the original story which is linked on the bottom of this post along with the original story.
In New York City a woman was trying to buy a bag of chips in a bodega but did not have enough money and stormed out angry. She left the store and summoned a friend or boyfriend, who stormed into the store and rushed behind the store counter and shoved the bodega worker back into a bunch of shelves. The bodega worker seems to bunk his back and his head on a bunch of shelves and falls back in a chair and is stunned. the male who stormed behind the counter seems hovering over the store clerk and threatening him. The male then grabs the clerk by the back of the neck and yanks him up and they struggle. The bodega worker grabs a large knife hidden and stabs the attacker in the chest and neck.
The police arrested the Bodega worker and charged him with murder and criminal possession of a weapon. He being held on Rikers Island on $250,000 bail Tuesday and is due back in Manhattan court on Thursday.
It could be argued that he was defending himself or it could be argued that he brought a knife to a fist fight. To me the fact that the guy came behind the counter and attacked him indicates that the person arrested was not the aggressor. But it could be argued that the person using the knife escalated a non-weapon situation to a deadly force situation absent of disparity of force.
https://nypost.com/2022/07/05/video-...-man-to-death/
But was it really a disparity of force? IANAL, but I could see the aggressor’s actions as described here as possibly being sufficient to warrant defense with a knife. I don’t know NY law - is there a duty to retreat?
Ken
BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”
IANAL, but yes, NY has a duty to retreat outside of the home. If I remember correctly, it is phrased as "in public". How that sorts out in a private business that's open to the public might end up being part of the case.
That neighborhood is near mine. I would not be surprised if the bodega had been dealing with a lot of theft, in the form of person(s) walk in, take things and stroll out, probably taunting the clerk as they go.
"It was the fuck aroundest of times, it was the find outest of times."- 45dotACP
https://nycourts.gov/judges/cji/1-Ge....20%283%29.pdf (opens PDF)
F-d around, found out. Bye.I will now explain when, under our law, a person is justified
in using deadly physical force to prevent or terminate a burglary
or attempted burglary.
Under our law, a person in possession or control of [or
licensed or privileged to be in] a dwelling [or an occupied
building], who reasonably believes that another individual is
committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling [or
occupied building], may use deadly physical force upon that
individual when he or she reasonably believes such to be
necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted
commission of such burglary
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776
Yeah, that dude would want me on his jury. Trapping someone in a tiny confined space like that is asking for it, and if I was a New York prosecutor I’d be looking at what charges I could put on the girlfriend, because she’s the one that wanted this to happen.
In NY, only the perps have the right to walk away unscathed and live.
Honest Joes...not so much.
There's nothing civil about this war.
Guess that "Employees Only" sign was for real.
It gets worse.
The guy who attacked the Bodega Worker was on parole for assaulting a cop, and has at least eight prior busts, including for assault, robbery, and assault during a domestic dispute, sources and records show.
During the fight, Simon’s girlfriend allegedly stabbed the worker in the shoulder with a knife she had in her purse, according to Alba’s defense attorney — but she is not facing charges.
From: https://nypost.com/2022/07/06/nyc-bo...e-family-says/
A hard-working Manhattan bodega clerk who was forced to grab a knife to fend off a violent ex-con, now finds himself sitting behind bars at the notorious Rikers Island jail charged with murder and unable to post $250,000 bail.
The sky-high bail for Jose Alba — who has no known criminal history — was just half of what controversial Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s office demanded, despite surveillance video showing the clerk being assaulted by his alleged victim in the bodega.
Alba, 51, was charged with the fatal stabbing of Austin Simon, 34, who can be seen storming behind the counter at the Hamilton Heights Grocery on Broadway and West 139th Street to attack the store worker Friday night.
“It was either him or the guy at the moment,” Alba’s daughter Yulissa told The Post Wednesday, saying it was a case of self-defense.
“He’s never hurt anybody. He’s never had an altercation where he had to defend himself. This is the first time for him.”
The harrowing incident followed an argument Alba had with Simon’s girlfriend, whose EBT debit card was declined when she tried to use it to buy chips for her 10-year-old daughter at the store, police and law enforcement sources said.
The 32-year-old woman claimed Alba grabbed the snack out of her daughter’s hand — so she knocked over items on the counter and ran home to get Simon, who stormed into the bodega and attacked Alba about 10 minutes later.
During the fight, Simon’s girlfriend allegedly stabbed the worker in the shoulder with a knife she had in her purse, according to Alba’s defense attorney — but she is not facing charges.
Bragg’s office, however, charged Alba, a dad of three who moved to the US from the Dominican Republic 30 years ago searching for a better life, with second-degree murder. He became a US citizen 14 years ago.
“It would not be that surprising that someone thinks that harm is going to come to them or that they are going to be robbed, particularly if the woman that you just got into a verbal argument with is also with this person, and ended up taking her own knife out of a purse and stabbing my client,” Alba’s attorney Michelle Villasenor-Grant said at his arraignment Saturday.
Still, the gal pal-instigator is free while Alba could go away for 15 to 25 years if convicted on the second-degree murder charge.
Bragg has been under fire since he took office in January and unveiled his “Day One” policies against locking up all but the most violent criminals and ordering prosecutors to downgrade some felony charges to misdemeanors.
Still, his prosecutors asked that Alba be held on $500,000 bail or bond. But Manhattan Criminal Court Judge Eric Schumacher set the bail at $250,000 cash or a $500,000 bond, instead, finding that he was a flight risk after prosecutors argued he had a previously planned trip back to the Dominican Republic scheduled for next week.
Prosecutors are expected to present the case to a grand jury for an indictment on Thursday.
His family called Alba “a good citizen” who had simply feared for his life.
“He’s not used to this behavior,” son Jeffrey Alba, 27, said Wednesday. “He’s not used to this type of aggression. At the moment he was in fear for his life.
“He’s never been locked up, he’s never been in trouble,” the heartsick son said. “I’m 100 percent sure he’s regretting it, but at that moment I think he just blanked out, went into self-defense mode.”
Footage of the attack showed an irate Simon shoving the shopkeeper into a wall and menacingly standing over him, then grabbing him as the frightened older man tried to get past the attacker.
Alba then reached behind a row of candy bars and pulled out a knife — stabbing Simon at least five times, according to court papers.
The criminal complaint filed by prosecutors acknowledges that Simon “pushed the defendant” as Alba sat behind the counter. It also says Simon attempted to “steer” Alba from behind the counter.
Simon can be seen on video storming around to where the worker sat, shoving him into a shelf and grabbing his arm while screaming at him — until Alba grabbed the knife and stabbed him.
“There is no clearer example of self-defense,” former prosecutor and criminal defense attorney Michael Discioarro said Wednesday.
“He’s at work, minding his own business and he is attacked,” Discioarro said. “He is the victim, and he’s sitting in Rikers. This is a working person who was attacked. How does the DA make this conclusion? A jury will set this right.”
Manhattan defense attorney Jason Goldman said he imagined prosecutors would have a tough time selling their story to a jury.
“I think a New York jury will not only sympathize with him at a trial but also find he acted in reasonable self-defense,” Goldman said.
“Alba was assaulted, cornered and saw the victim reaching into his own back pocket, all prior to trying to escape and defending himself in the process,” Goldman said.
Alba’s daughter noted that, “When the guy came in and pushed him, my father didn’t do anything.”
“As soon as the guy came in, he started showing him the receipt — like, ‘Listen, this is why me and your girlfriend were arguing. She doesn’t have any funds. There was nothing I can do,” Yulissa Alba said.
She said her dad used to own his own bodega but now works for a different owner.
“I worked for him for many years and he never had a situation like that,” she said of her father. “When he had his own bodega anybody who was hungry, he gave food to. If someone wanted a cigarette and promised to pay later, he gave it to him. He had that trust.”
Reached Wednesday, Simon’s girlfriend declined to comment, saying only that she’s “not okay” after losing her boyfriend in the scuffle.
In a statement, a spokesman for DA Alvin Bragg said “we are continuing to review the evidence and the investigation is ongoing.”
Prosecutors had argued in court that Alba could take off if not held on bail, noting the planned trip to the Dominican Republic. They also noted that he admitted to cops, “I took the knife we used to open boxes, and I stabbed him.” according to a transcript of the hearing.
But Villasenor-Grant, of Neighborhood Defender Services of Harlem, told the judge her client has never been in trouble with the law — and wasn’t going anywhere.
Simon, meanwhile, was already on parole for assaulting a cop at the time of the deadly encounter — and has at least eight prior busts, including for assault, robbery, and assault during a domestic dispute, sources and records show.
State corrections records show he has served prison time on a second-degree assault conviction for attacking the cop before he was paroled last year.
What a cesspool.
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