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Thread: Shooting incidents in the news.

  1. #5931
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    Quote Originally Posted by 757_Magnum View Post
    That's odd. I'm pretty sure I can spell "statistics", and that also goes for my friends and family. As far as math, well... you know what they say about Asian kids and math . It's funny that you demand statistics to back this issue up, yet you're willing to make ridiculous generalizations about an entire population.

    Statistics are fine for looking at historical trends and saying "Hmm, these numbers have risen steadily over the past decade", but when you start seeing friends and family sharing attacks that occurred within several degrees of separation from you, you take notice. When you see that others across the country are experiencing the same, you really take notice. Now. Not next year when the numbers have been consolidated into a database and made into an infographic by data scientists. I don't need statistics to see that. The sudden copycat attacks on elderly Asians aren't something the MSM just made up, as much as I also dislike how they thrive on turmoil. You think that no one was bringing this up 6 months ago? There was a noticeable spike in anti-Asian racism starting at the beginning of COVID. It made some headlines, but was overshadowed by the rest of the shit-show that was 2020. My neighborhood gun shop had a significant increase in Asian customers, and there were some restaurants that were vandalized. Sorry, I don't have the statistics to back that up.

    As far as the shooting itself, I don't agree with the hate crime label just yet. Does sexual addiction or INCEL ideology nullify race as a factor? I don't think they're mutually exclusive. This is just conjecture, but I'll ASSume that he had an Asian fetish, was severely repressed, and took his self-loathing out on the objects of his lust. He skipped all the strip clubs Atlanta is known for and targeted several Asian owned businesses where the majority of employees are Asian. It's not the typical "Kill all [insert racial slur]" racism, but that leads me to believe race played at least some part. Is fetishizing Asian women a problem? I think so. Is it a hate crime? In and of itself, I don't think so. We do need to wait for more evidence to see how much of a factor race played. I don't see it as binary, but where do we draw the line?

    I agree that the words "racist" and "hate crime" are thrown around far too casually, and not everything involving a minority is a race issue. Sometimes I feel a witch hunt vibe. I think there is definitely more racism going on now than ever, and not just against Blacks and Asians. My nephew is half Filipino, half (mostly) Irish, but looks plain white. I don't want him to have to be ashamed of his skin color any more than I have to be of mine.

    If any good were to realistically come out of the past 365 days, including the more intense focus on racism in the context of this attack, I'd think it would be more of the general public understanding our perspective on gun rights, making a ban very unpopular. Hell, I'd also like to wish for striking down the laws regarding other self defense options like fixed blade knives and saps.
    In my state Hate Crimes are pretty narrowly defined and refer to motive, not victim status. The question is was the crime is intended to send a message to the larger community, or was there another reason? Not going to argue with your reasoning, because sound psychology is part of the process. A hate crime is defined by statute, and as such has to have evidence to meet the burden of proof. So. How do you establish intent? You look at the crime scenes: were the Asian victims treated differently than the non-Asian victims? Was there vandalism, like tagging that may establish a motive? When you ID the bad guy: what do his social media posts and texts say about the victims or his mindset? His friends and family? When you catch the suspect, what does he say was his motivation, if he talks to you at all? What evidence is there to call this a hate crime, other than the fact that 3/4 of the victims were Asian women? In some locales you would have 4/4, and still might not have the evidence to prove a hate crime. Quite frankly hanging Hate Crime status on just about any crime is a publicity win in the short term. But getting the aggravating charge laughed out of court for lack of evidence rarely makes the headlines, and it paints the investigators, their agency, and the prosecuting agency as overreaching, leading them to far more scrutiny. And liability.

    I just handled a case of felony violence against a gay man. My questions focused on whether the attacker had a beef with him personally or was the attacker specifically trying to frighten the local gay community? My victim, after answering my questions did not like my conclusions, but my chain of command and the DA's office and the State District Court all agreed with my conclusions. When I explained my conclusions to my victim, with statutory references, he was very much satisfied that he understood the process used to come to those conclusions.

    Frankly, true hate crimes are may or may not be rare, but when cases are put together, if there is evidence for a hate crime, it tends to be pretty clear and convincing. It is my personal opinion that there are far more hate crimes out there than the stats reflect, but that is true of all crimes, because we need evidence to meet the elements of the crime before we make the charge. If things are not reported, they don't make the stats. If they are reported, and facts of the crime do not establish the elements of the crime, they don't make the stats. Another example would be a very common complaint that a victim had been robbed. We get there and learn that someone broke into thier home (or car) and stole stuff. That is not a robbery stat. The elements reflect burglary. One is a crime against a person, the other is a property crime. And while the victim still feels victimized, and has suffered real loss, the evidence presented does not support robbery. It repersents another, possibly less serious crime.

    Kudos to the departments involved not making the easy, quick call, and instead continuing to investigate until they have evidence to support their conclusions either way.

    pat

  2. #5932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Hands View Post
    That’s what I was thinking, where the extremist make a U into each other on the “Left vs. Right” chart.
    That’s horseshoe Theory. That’s somewhat applicable but I’m talking more along the lines of a related spectrum of beliefs like an ANTIFA subject also being involved in environmental extremism and anti Immigration / border enforcement extremism.

  3. #5933
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    @UNM1136 I totally agree. There was an incident last week where 3 old Asian ladies were mugged right in front of an Asian grocery or restaurant. In that case I'd be more inclined to see it as a crime of opportunity, as unpopular as that opinion may be with other Asians at the moment. IMHO, labeling everything little thing involving a minority as a hate crime only dilutes the seriousness of the issue in the long run, like crying wolf.

    My response was intended to point out that the suspect's claimed motive did not automatically rule out race as a factor, and that it's not an either/or proposition being repressed/INCEL or a racist. We definitely need to wait for more evidence to get as close to the truth as possible.

  4. #5934

  5. #5935
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    Ongoing shooting at Boulder CO supermarket.



    Livestreamer is either an asshole or an idiot, since he apparently thought it's more important that he continue his livestream on his phone than use it to call 911.


  6. #5936
    Site Supporter Ichiban's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^ Looks like this could be "the one" to drive the latest AWB.

    Now they are saying one office killed and two wounded.

  7. #5937
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    Alleged suspect.

    Name:  FB2C7434-362A-4FFF-9DA2-1744699B3218.jpeg
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    Very odd coincidence this happens in Boulder right after an NRA court victory regarding the city’s municipal AWB.

  8. #5938
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    Angry six confirmed dead in Boulder...

    This was one of the stores I used to go last year before the pandemic.
    Pretty close to where I worked.
    It's horrible!

  9. #5939
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    https://www.foxnews.com/us/active-sh...-center-police


    Ten people were killed, including a veteran police officer, during a mass shooting Monday inside a grocery store in Boulder, Colo., authorities said at a late press conference.

    The officer was identified as Eric Talley, 51, who served on the force since 2010. He was the first officer at King Scoopers, the crime scene, after the shooting occurred at about 2:30 p.m. His actions were called heroic.

    The suspect, who was not identified, is receiving medical treatment. Officers had escorted a shirtless man with blood running down his leg out of the store in handcuffs but authorities would not say if he was the suspect.

  10. #5940
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichiban View Post
    ^^^^^^ Looks like this could be "the one" to drive the latest AWB.

    Now they are saying one office killed and two wounded.
    Yep, prepare for a full-court press on passing gun control and ending the filibuster.

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